New Mold Release agent

[Fgayford]

I am planning on trying a new release agent (chemlease silicone base I think) and getting away from wax and PVA.
My question is this. I have just finished a mockup that I am about to make a mold from. For the mold, is it safer to use wax and PVA?
I am planning on super polishing the resultant mold and then using chemlease. I am just a little nervous about the mold sticking to the mockup. It may be fine using chemlease on the mockup and I am worrying about nothing.
I would appreciate your experience in this case.
Thanks
Fred

[keith66]

I would try it on some test pieces first. Nothing like a stick up to get you sweating with panic. Had one once on a 12ft dinghy & was lucky not to lose the mould & hull.

[Silver Raven]

Originally Posted by Fgayford

I am planning on trying a new release agent (chemlease silicone base I think) and getting away from wax and PVA.
My question is this. I have just finished a mockup that I am about to make a mold from. For the mold, is it safer to use wax and PVA?
I am planning on super polishing the resultant mold and then using chemlease. I am just a little nervous about the mold sticking to the mockup. It may be fine using chemlease on the mockup and I am worrying about nothing.
I would appreciate your experience in this case.
Thanks
Fred

G'day Canuck. Why would you risk 'silicone migration' from the exotherme of the laminate. One of the greatest - side-effects - of using PVA is it stops the residual wax - migrating into the gel-coat of the mould being made (in this case).

Any posibility - regardless of how small - of 'silicone migration' is to be avoided - at all cost?? I've only been doing this for a few years (like over 40) so you may be way out in front of me. Ciao, james from down-under in OZ - where it is warm in the sun.

[Fgayford]

Thanks for the reply. You're right, don't risk the mold. So I will make the mold using wax and PVA as a positive release agent. I will then use the chemlease on the parts. (after doing some test pieces.)
Fred

[tinhorn]

You're gonna like that Chemlease. Even more, you're gonna like the habit of blowing the first gelcoat off your new molds or plugs after it has cured. Better to sacrifice a layer of gelcoat than have a stuck part.

[Fgayford]

Can I just use prime wash instead of chemlease mold cleaner. I assume that they are both just silicone and wax removers. (primewash is what autobody people use before they paint.)
Thanks
Fred

[ondarvr]

Originally Posted by Fgayford

Can I just use prime wash instead of chemlease mold cleaner. I assume that they are both just silicone and wax removers. (primewash is what autobody people use before they paint.)
Thanks
Fred

Maybe, maybe not, why risk it.

I frequently see customers attempting to try new methods or products on projects they can't afford to mess up, most of the time even if it's a very good method or product they experience problems related to their lack of experience with it (them). This can result in huge cost overruns and delays. Test, test, test before changing anything.

[tunnels]

Originally Posted by Fgayford

I am planning on trying a new release agent (chemlease silicone base I think) and getting away from wax and PVA.
My question is this. I have just finished a mockup that I am about to make a mold from. For the mold, is it safer to use wax and PVA?
I am planning on super polishing the resultant mold and then using chemlease. I am just a little nervous about the mold sticking to the mockup. It may be fine using chemlease on the mockup and I am worrying about nothing.
I would appreciate your experience in this case.
Thanks
Fred

Did you try the new ?? did it work and if so how good ??

[Fgayford]

Originally Posted by ondarvr

Maybe, maybe not, why risk it.

I frequently see customers attempting to try new methods or products on projects they can't afford to mess up, most of the time even if it's a very good method or product they experience problems related to their lack of experience with it (them). This can result in huge cost overruns and delays. Test, test, test before changing anything.

Your right! Why risk it! I will order the cleaner from Freemans this week.
Grasshopper

[Fgayford]

Originally Posted by tunnels

Did you try the new ?? did it work and if so how good ??

Not yet. I will let you know after I use it.
Fred

[Fgayford]

Originally Posted by tunnels

Did you try the new ?? did it work and if so how good ??

Well Tunnels I did use this product and It worked fantastically for me.
I almost felt guilty that the part came out of the mould so easily. No prying wedging, hammering, sticking. I just slid a bondo spreader around and under the flange and out it came. No wax no pva used, just the product.
The mold was perfectly polished and the part came out as perfect in its finish. No PVA messing up the finish as before.
I then made a mold using this product on the plug. Same thing, it came off so cleanly I didn't really need to polish the mold. The old way (wax and PVA)usually parts of the plug would stick to the mold or tear the primer off the plug. Either way I would have to wet sand the mold and polish after release.
I simply slid a bondo spreader around the flange and it came off easily.
It left me thinking, what have I been doing all these years with wax and PVA?
It is fairly expensive, but worth it to me. The company gave me free samples to try first.I am done with PVA and WAX!
One note. Because I vacuum infuse I could get the tacky tape to stick to the chemleased flange. The trick was to sand the flange area and then use wax on the flange so the flange is active enhough to allow the tacky tape to stick. Well I guess I am not totally off the wax after all! I use it to make things stick. Ironic isn't it.
Fred

[tunnels]

chemlease silicone base
Wow thats good to hear !!
While working in Tahiti we used to use silicone car wax from the local service station just one coat and like you say it came out easy !! so i am glad to here you had a good result !!. Keep us posted on any new and exciting things you find !!.

Its something completely new and will be a huge step for a lot of people to consider even a change in a small way !. Silicone !! wow !!

[Fgayford]

Originally Posted by tunnels

chemlease silicone base
Wow thats good to hear !!
While working in Tahiti we used to use silicone car wax from the local service station just one coat and like you say it came out easy !! so i am glad to here you had a good result !!. Keep us posted on any new and exciting things you find !!.

Its something completely new and will be a huge step for a lot of people to consider even a change in a small way !. Silicone !! wow !!

Tunnels
I did have a slight worry about silicone migrating to the part but the sales tech rep says that it chemically cures so as it is inactive in that requard. The other plus is that I think he said you are good for 10 releases (or was it 20?) before you should just touch it up. It can also take the heat of an autoclave process.
Fred

[rxcomposite]

The problem with silicon is you don't see the adverse effect right away.

In the early days of composites, there was some test done and a report. The silicon migrates from the mold to the part and stays there embedded. Very slowly, the particles floats to the surface and debond whatever was secondary bond/glued to the part. This is called "silicon migration". Silicon transfer does not come only from wax but from any silicon material that comes in contact with the part and accelerated by the use of heat such as autoclave or hot curing oven.

Silicon is great as a release agent. Just don't think of bonding/painting anything to that part ever. It may take months or a year but it surely will.

[Fgayford]

Originally Posted by rxcomposite

The problem with silicon is you don't see the adverse effect right away.

In the early days of composites, there was some test done and a report. The silicon migrates from the mold to the part and stays there embedded. Very slowly, the particles floats to the surface and debond whatever was secondary bond/glued to the part. This is called "silicon migration". Silicon transfer does not come only from wax but from any silicon material that comes in contact with the part and accelerated by the use of heat such as autoclave or hot curing oven.

Silicon is great as a release agent. Just don't think of bonding/painting anything to that part ever. It may take months or a year but it surely will.

Hi
The person that steered me to this produce was a chief composite fabricator for a formula one team. I trust what he says. You may be right about silicon in the past but today is today. I would talk to chemtrend and see for sure.
Fred