If the vacuum is to high what are the problems ??

So in this world where oil prices keep going up like a rocket and the need for lighter and lighter boats requiring less horse power to do the same speeds how and what are boats to be constructed that will hold together out on the water ??.

 

Wood epoxy is one answer. There are more of course....

Cores are one answer. Wood in wood cores, for example.

Being a bit humble is the best answer. Nobody needs to have breakfast in Nizza and lunch in Porto Cervo!

Regards
Richard

 

Experiment to prove a theory will always change the mindset of the most bullheaded person. It is also a good way to get the opposing sides to agree with you.

 

You are probably all familiar with the slightly rude saying about opinions.Nobody has expressed one about why autoclaves impose additional pressure on a vacuum bagged laminate.Even one with a core,although it is unusual to pressurise honeycomb beyond 30 psi.

 

Auto claves, cant get a whole boat in one but i can see the advantages !!

 

You wanted to say "whole boats over 32 meters" right?

 

Well lots a people expressed there thoughts and collectively theres some things in there that some of us didnt know before and hopefuly we all got something out of asking what are the effects of Hi vac .
One thing i got was the amount of people that dont use gauges to actually know how much vac they are using . The old grab the bag and give it a tug seems to be the general way of the world . Bit like kicking tyres on you car to see if the pressure is ok !!
Anyway thank you all that posted and replyes . So Whats next ??

 

Instead of autoclaves, a more practical approach is post curing at elevated temperature. It raises the mechanical properties of the laminate by 6 to 10%.

 

waste not want not

A racer must not be designed to last for more than one race,

Not a good statement!
Boats used for racing have to be built beyond the limits of human endurance and need to be bullet proof and keep coming back time after time .
Lessons learned during the Americas cup early days when boats broke and some sank .
I was present when Young America was bought to the factory where i happened to be working and i was able to see first hand all that had happened and how it was made . Honey comb and the layers of carbon were so sparce that there were minute gaps between the bundles of strands ,weight saving to the point of rediculous !!.
Race boats need to last and last for a long time so need to be built to take all and anything thats likely to be thrown at them .
With thoughts of lasting just one race you had better not venture beyond your front gate and if you do go out go by yourself !

 

I do not agree. When a boat design is made, it should be very clear what the boat is intended for. If that is just one race, then fine, if the boat wins, and collapses just after the finish, then the designer did a perfect job.

This boat in 95 did break, just because a winch jammed, and the jib sheet was led to another winch. The boat was not designed for that. so it broke. As no people were allowed downstairs, and there are plenty of support boats nearby, it was not a big deal.

I have campaigned some home-built racing boats myself, made from 400 grams of carbon on the outside, and 200 grams on the inside, with 80 kg/m3 foam in between, 6mm thick.
If I were to build the same boat now, I would use a 250 gr/m2 biax on the outside, and a 100 grams biax on the inside, with a 10mm foam core, either 80 or 60 kg (preferably 70 kg, I might even select the sheets by weighing them).

All to save weight, which can be brought back in places that really need them, and concentrate whatever I have left in the middle of the boat. This might give me some extra speed when it matters.

On the other hand, if a boat is to survive longer, or is sailing in conditions where the boat is not reached by support boats within a couple of minutes, then things are completely different.

 

if the boat wins, and collapses just after the finish, then the designer did a perfect job.[

I cant answer this statement with out wanting to be abusive .
If this is what you want to believe you are welcome to it !!

 

Because you don´t know even the minimum about our business! (and sure NOTHING about fiber reinforced resin building):!:

Herman was completely right. A racer is designed to win, not to last. If built to your weird phantasies it has no chance to win any race against a high tech machine.

Tunnels you should stop spreading your "I did", "I was", "I made" drivel here.

You have NO clue!

Richard

 

so this is your site and no one else is allowed an opinion or post if you dont agree !
What is your problem ?
So you have to build a boat for every race just because a winch jambs the boat cant stand the extra strain .
Would look great seeing you arrive on race day with a gaggle of throwaway one off boats in tow and a big jumbo bin for the days disasters .
Dont go boating in water deeper than your Knees because you will have to walk home .

 

In America's Cup: There is only one race. Boats are built to win that race. If you make a boat that lasts, then you will not win. This is Formula 1 of sailing.

Did you know the Formula 1 engines of cars last 2 races and a couple of rounds more? Just because the regulations say an engine should last 2 races. If they said it could last for one race, they would build engines that last 1 race and a couple of laps, and revv perhaps 200 rpm more.

But even the same is true for racing boats, I have experience in a number of dinghies, of which some of them can really be throw away stuff. At least if winning counts.

I won a German Championship just due to the fact that I carried a spinnaker which weighed 300 grams, where 600 grams was the norm. It was so lightweight, I was the only one being able to make use of it in the light winds we had that weekend. (with 2mm kevlar sheets with the cover stripped off, did not last long either.)

Winning in a high spec'ed race is about throwing away stuff. That costs money, yes.

Do not have the money anymore, do not win races anymore either...

 

Most of the past nz Americas cup boats here still sail regularly on the Auckland harbour with a crew and a bunch of tourists ,They are also used to train up and coming sailers !.
Some of the really old Australian cup boats are used for cruising .
The match racing yachts for Koreas first Boat show match racing are still as good as the day they were first put in the water they get a lot of use for the training of future crews .
Your thinking is completely differant from mine and if i built a boat that fell apart and some one got drowned i could never live with myself .