Fuel Tank

Ike, maybe you want to let it drop but it's not just between you and jimslade. We all participate in this forum. The reason I do it is to share what I know and to learn from you all. I get offended sometimes but almost never take a person to task because it serves no purpose.

If jimslade has been around boatyards, boat building plants, heaven forbid a saloon or two or the internet he must spend much of his time offended. Perhaps the workers in Canada are all fine gentlemen unlike those in the US. I've heard a female South Carolina laminator spew cuss words that would curl your hair.

And as for "never do this" and "always do that", please keep it to yourself. The customer and the boatbuilder decide what will and won't be done. What works for some does not work for all. Almost anybody can build a great boat but hardly anybody can make money at it.

Getting back to offending people, a skill at which I excel, check out this link from one of my favorite web sites.


http://boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5348&d=1141842129

Got anything against hooters?

djs

 

I don't have much tolerance for bible thumpers. Sam

 

I deal with Service Stations...
maybe this couple of photos help to change your mind....

(have a lot more if you think it's not enough

 

Hey Sam, I've heard it all. I spent 20 years wearing a Coast Guard uniform and 14 more as a civilian employee. I've served on ships and shore. I've heard them in multiple languages as well. During that time I worked with all the other services as well, so I doubt if there is some form of profanity I haven't heard. Nothing surpises me much. I'm not bragging. Mild profanity doesn't bother me much. The f word as an adjective for every noun bothers me a bit. But having been around everyone from the christian right to you name the religion, I've learned it takes all kinds to make up this old world of ours.

Anyway back to tanks. Oh yes. there are things you should not do whether the customer wants it or not. Ever hear the word liability?

 

Maybe that word (liability) was out of some dictionaries, (Case of a Petroleum Company in Argentina... they "lost" (spilled) about 1.7million litters fuel underground) sorry, the article is in Spanish:

http://www.holistica2000.com.ar/ecocolumna210.htm

by the way, the fuel tanks on previous post, ARE NOT FROM THAT COMPANY, even they are not of the same country....

 

What makes plastic brittle is degradation by UV not lack of moisture. A glassed in tank is an illegal installation. It would not be"accessible without removing boat structure" , as required. Plastic tanks in cars and trucks have been around for at least 25 years with good results. They also have less problems bursting on impact than metal tanks. I have a late 70's Tohatsu outboard with a plastic tank that has been continuously filled with gas, which is in great condition.

 

Be it any type of tank choosen for boat services, I believe they should be regularly inspected. Easy access to the tank for inspection purpose will be very helpful.

 

33 Cfr

Gonzo,

Required by whom? After all these years I was recently enlightened to the fact that 33 CFR regualtions on fuel systems do not apply to outboards.

FEDERAL LAW

183.501 - Applicability

(a) This subpart applies to all boats that have gasoline engines, except outboard engines, for electrical generation, mechanical power, or propulsion

I have to admit I was blown away when I learned this.

Bob Dougherty had floor covers on all his Edgewater models when he was running the company. The problem is that they provide access to remove the tank but the boat owner is not going to dig out the 5200 and remove the cover to inspect the tank every year. When the boat reeks of gasoline he will. Getting that cover off without destroying it is a big job. We had an idea to put a piece of SS wire in the seam before caulking which would be used to break the caulk seam. Never happened.

These days in an imperfect world, I like to make a seam in the non-skid which would be a pettern to cut the floor out without damaging the non-skid. Set the saw blade at a sharp angle. That way the cutout piece would be easier to replace and repair the gelcoat.

djs

 

The CFR does not make any exeptions for type of propulsion. A tank is regulated even if it is for heating or transporting fuel. 33CFR183.501 says( I copied and pasted from the Federal government's site):
Sec. 183.510 Fuel tanks.

(a) Each fuel tank in a boat must have been tested by its
manufacturer under Sec. 183.580 and not leak when subjected to the
pressure marked on the tank label under Sec. 183.514(b)(5).
(b) Each fuel tank must not leak if subjected to the fire test under
Sec. 183.590. Leakage is determined by the static pressure test under
Sec. 183.580, except that the test pressure must be at least one-fourth
PSIG.
(c) Each fuel tank of less than 25 gallons capacity must not leak if
tested under Sec. 183.584.
(d) Each fuel tank with a capacity of 25 to 199 gallons must not
leak if tested under Sec. 183.586.
(e) Each fuel tank of 200 gallons capacity or more must not leak if
tested under Sec. Sec. 183.586 and 183.588.

[CGD 74-209, 42 FR 5950, Jan. 31, 1977, as amended by CGD 81-092, 48 FR
55736, Dec. 15, 1983]
There are NO EXEPTIONS for outboards.

 

Sorry Gonzo, derek is right. If you don't want to take my word for it call Rick Gipe, at 202-267-0985 or e-mail him at rgipe@comdt.uscg.mil. Tell I sent you. (that'll give him a chuckle) You can't read just one part of the regs and take it out of context. You have to read the whole subchapter and the applicability part is especially important. No, the fuel system regulations starting at 33 CFR 501 do not apply to recreational boats powered by outboard engines. Here's the catch though. ABYC standards for fuel systems do. They apply to both I/B and O/B powered boats. Almost all manufacturers follow the ABYC standards. If you get sued the court is going to hold you to the ABYC standards, or you better have a good reason why you didn't follow them.

For that matter the Electrical system regs in 33 CFR 401 don't apply to outboard powered boats either.

The exception to this is if you put the o/b engine in an enclosure (some fishing skiffs on Chesapeake Bay do this) Then it's considered an inboard.

Now as far as the accesibility issue goes the Fed regs say the fittings have to be accessible for inspection, but in case of an outboard they don't.

The other catch 22 is surveyors use the ABYC standards when they do their survey, so it doesn't matter to them whether the boat is an O/B or I/B they will fail you if it doesn't meet the ABYC standards.

I spent 25 of my 34 years with the Guard enforcing these regs. I'd hate to think I was doing it wrong all those years. LOL....

But you are right in so far as that the tank manufacturers test their tanks to the Fed Regs anyway, whether they are going in an inboard or outboard. They often don't know what the tank is going into so they build them all to the same specs.

Now on the commercial side of the house (passenger carrying vessels that are inspected vessels) every thing is regulated regardless of type of propulsion. However if it is a six pack (six or less passengers for hire, it is regulated the same as a recreational boat).

 

Jeff,
Thanks for removing my post. Your levelheadeness is impressive. Please run for president in '08. Sam

 

Ike: ABYC does make an exeption . However, dereksireci said the exemption was under 33CFR 183.501 which is incorrect.

 

Gonzo,

Don't feel bad. I was blown away too.

Follow this link. I don't make this stuff up!

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/fuel/183-501-a.htm


Care to reconsider my incorrectness?

Cheers,
djs

 

There is also a complete Boat Builders Handbook on that site that you can down load as a PDF file. http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/index.htm

 

This is from the horse's mouth:
http://frwebgate4.access.gpo.gov/cg...ISdocID=54608124583 1 0 0&WAISaction=retrieve
This is the CFR link with the proper quote. The limitation to oubards, kayaks, etc. is for computation on HP and steering only. Not for fuel tanks.