Fiberglass help

[elmwood]

Ok so now I have ideas running through my head. I looked up 3m 5200 and it has a 600 psi strength. I know a fair amount about glues being my woodworking and this is not that high but really is good considering its psi and the key here is square inch. It doesn't state the gap filling properties which is important in glue. If it has a high tensile strength but poor gap filling there has to be a tight fit for the strength.

Ok where am I going with this rambling? What if I were to glue the platform down and not use the bolts through the top of it? After all the supports would still be under it to transfer the weight. Anyone know what the gap filling properties of 5200? I'm going to kick an email out to 3m and ask them. I wrote to them about something else before and they were nice enough to respond. I would still like to get sone feedback. The underside of the platform is not flat because of the stand or cut fiberglass and the boat is a nonskid surface.

Eric

[tunnels]

Yesterday we had a new imported boat arrive and has the same sort of bording plateform but has two stainless steel brackets and has screws aroung the edge to hold it in place !!.i checked the fit and is close and reasonable for a add on . when i have time and the boat has been cleaned will get some pictures of what we have . the brackets are good idea so wont put to much strain on the screws !!!.

[tunnels]

These are what i took before the boat was properly uncovered and still dirty !!

[midnitmike]

Originally Posted by elmwood

Ok so now I have ideas running through my head. I looked up 3m 5200 and it has a 600 psi strength. I know a fair amount about glues being my woodworking and this is not that high but really is good considering its psi and the key here is square inch. It doesn't state the gap filling properties which is important in glue. If it has a high tensile strength but poor gap filling there has to be a tight fit for the strength.

Ok where am I going with this rambling? What if I were to glue the platform down and not use the bolts through the top of it? After all the supports would still be under it to transfer the weight. Anyone know what the gap filling properties of 5200? I'm going to kick an email out to 3m and ask them. I wrote to them about something else before and they were nice enough to respond. I would still like to get sone feedback. The underside of the platform is not flat because of the stand or cut fiberglass and the boat is a nonskid surface.

Eric

Eric,
5200 is probably the most tenacious marine adhesive/sealant that you can buy at your local hardware store. If there's any real disadvantage in using it to secure your swim platform it has to be the prolonged cure time of up to a week.

I once witnessed a 30' boat being picked up off it's trailer while trying to remove the roof for an engine replacement. The crew forgot to run a razor blade along the small bead of 5200 that used to chaulk the interior gap.

MM

[elmwood]

tunnels,
Mine came with the same braces except I believe the mounting plates on both ends of my braces are larger. They are about 3 1/2" in diameter. What I'm thinking is that once you would step towards the edge of the platform, past the actual edge of the boat which would act as a folcrum, the braces would support the platform. If glued down the 5200 should not have much vertical force to deal with and also not much lateral. It's just an idea I'm kicking around. My son is a mechanical engineer maybe I should run this by him and see what he comes up with. I doubt he would figure it out though.

midnitmike,
I'd have to say that is a pretty good holding force. The 5200 I'm refering to is the 5200 fast cure. 3m states it cures in 24 hours but I did find one reference to 24 to 48 hour cure time. I'm not talking about the original which cures in 5 to 7 days. The tensile strength is different for the pair. 5200 FC is 600 psi and the original is 700 psi. These both are still less than good old Elmers glue all which is 750 psi. Don't read into that last sentence, I'm not using Elmers.

Eric

[midnitmike]

Originally Posted by elmwood

tunnels,

midnitmike,
I'd have to say that is a pretty good holding force. The 5200 I'm refering to is the 5200 fast cure. 3m states it cures in 24 hours but I did find one reference to 24 to 48 hour cure time. I'm not talking about the original which cures in 5 to 7 days. The tensile strength is different for the pair. 5200 FC is 600 psi and the original is 700 psi. These both are still less than good old Elmers glue all which is 750 psi. Don't read into that last sentence, I'm not using Elmers.

Eric

Hi Eric,
Well some times you have to think outside the box to solve a particularly perplexing problem....

As much as I might approve of the idea of using 5200 to attach your platform extension there is a part of me that would still like to see bolts sticking out everywhere. How about a compromise...once you've fitted the piece and installed the outer support arms, locate three or four places suitable for bolts and install some stainless carriage bolts. You'll have to square up the holes to allow the bolts to fit snuggly into place but that shouldn't be any problem for you.

This will address several issues at once. First you'll have a secure mechanical bond without any nasty bolt heads sticking up. Second..you won't have to drill any large recesses thereby weakening the structure. Third..you'll properly locate the piece in it's correct position, and Fourth...you'll provided clamping pressure during the 5200's cure time.

MM

[elmwood]

MM Ultimately I do know I should not do that and should have some sort of mechanical fastener. I've been thinking that maybe in the fall that I could recess the bolt heads. I would have the time then to do it. I might try doing it with the platform still on the boat so I would not have to disconnect the supports. I don't like the idea of taking the screws out of the fiberglass and then putting them back in. I looked over at Lowes for the plastic cap covers for screws. They have some in white but the largest they have is for 1/4". The bolts I was given are 5/16". The heads won't fit in.

Eric

[elmwood]

People wanted to know what the out come is of this and I do feel I owe it to Four Winns to post this, after all they do know this was posted in another forum and I only feel it right to them to do the same here. I know that because it is how I had them view the photos I took by pointing them to the other posting.

Four Winns was very interested in finding out the problem. I was told the first time they contacted me this week that no the platform was not right, but now try and figure out what is wrong is another thing. They contacted me again asking for more measurements of specific areas. I provided them. Today they called me and told me that the platform I have is the correct one for the model and year but something went wrong and not quite sure what it was. It all came down to the area around the rub rail. That area was basically inset too close. I now had two options get another one with returning this or keep this one. I choose to keep this one and we came to an agreement which I am happy with. Now it will be up to me to fit it to the boat which they already know I feel more that capable to doing. I told them I'd send a picture of the finished product. I was also told that I could contact them direct in the future if I need to. I have an email address and a phone number direct to the gentleman I have been working with.

This incident was probably just a fluke since it does not seem that anyone else has had a problem in the past. I do not want anyone else to read this in the future and use it for a reason not to purchase a platform from the factory because they are good. I can finally start in the morning fitting to the boat and mounting it and then enjoy it.

Hey I've been building cabinets and furniture for 33 years and everyone here also makes things. You can't say that you never had a mistake and when you have employees and something that is not right gets out and you have to come along and figure out what happened that can be "fun" sometimes. More like... "Now how the heck did they do that?"

Eric