Estimate Man Hours to build a yacht......

[AppleNation]

anyone?

thanks.

[TeddyDiver]

Not any major difference.. The hull is the easy part..
Most advantage in work hours you could get by simplifying the design.. However what's the point if you have such demands that you have to consider oneoff boat at all. Anyway that's usually the reason for oneoff production when you wan't something what's more demanding than a regular production boats can offer..

[apex1]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Not any major difference.. The hull is the easy part..
Most advantage in work hours you could get by simplifying the design.. However what's the point if you have such demands that you have to consider oneoff boat at all. Anyway that's usually the reason for oneoff production when you wan't something what's more demanding than a regular production boats can offer..

Exactly....

A 90ft newbuild I actually started here in Turkey ends up @ about 15lbs of boat built per manhour right out the door.
Hardchine, metal, easy construction but very high quality interior.....but....

Built by professionals with some hundred years of experience accumulated!
Subcontractors who do nothing else than the same job every single day.
I guess if a amateur achieves 5lb of boat per hour he can call himself happy and busy.
just my two cent (€ cent of course)
Regards
Richard

[marshmat]

just my two cent (€ cent of course)

We get it, Richard. Your money is strong, ours is not, and our friendly neighbours south of the 49th... well, theirs is different every time you check.

Your estimate of 5 pounds of boat per hour sounds reasonable for an amateur build. I haven't built my large boat yet- it's coming, eventually- but I've heard numerous reports of 10-tonners coming in at 4000 to 5000 hours, 5 lb/h would be 4400 hours for a 10 t (22000 lb) boat. If your pros are churning out boat at 15 pounds an hour, that's more like 1500 h for the same boat.... very fast indeed.

Most advantage in work hours you could get by simplifying the design.. However what's the point if you have such demands that you have to consider oneoff boat at all. Anyway that's usually the reason for oneoff production when you wan't something what's more demanding than a regular production boats can offer..

I'm getting the impression, TeddyDiver, that Apple might be thinking of building regular production boats. Simplifying the design- yes, for sure, that can speed things up. I'm still not entirely clear on what kind of boat he has in mind though.

[AppleNation]

Thanks guys.

Just to clarify I am building in composites... so please keep expereince relevant to that if possible.

Matt - yes plannig on doing more than one. How many depends on many many factors.

Thanks Again all.

[ecflyer]

I am currently building a 47' cold molded wood boat. I understand wood boats take the longest to build. I am a retired, very experienced carpenter by trade and so far have 4000 hours in the project. I have the hull, deck, pilot-house, stern, dingy davits, steel keel, skeg, interior partitions, cabin soles, exterior glassed & only needing final coat of paint, anchor locker complete, propane locker complete and life raft locker complete. I am currently installing the engine which is partially done. I expect to have my project completed in another 2000 - 2500 man hours. I have done all the work myself w/o any help from friends. Friends talk too much and get in the way. You should know that all my life I was a faster than average worker. Total time from start to finish will be approx 3.5 years. The final level of craftsmanship will exceed any factory production boat. I have some labor saving tips that will save you 1000's of man hours. If you do decide to build a wood boat, e-mail me and I'd be happy to help you out with some suggestions: ecflyer@netnet.net.
The relationship between size, cost and man hours is definitly not proportional. The larger the boat, the less it cost to produce and fewer man hours required to build per displacement ton. Let me appeal to your common sense. Let's compare a 35' boat to a 50' boat. The 50' boat is 42% longer, but does it take 42% more labor? Heck no! It does not even take 42% longer to build the hull & deck because experience has proven that once a worker is doing a particular job, it takes just a little bit longer to build something larger. Reason, set up time is the same and is part of the labor required to acomplish the task. My educated guess is that it takes 15% longer to build the 50' boat hull and deck. Now remember many of the boat building tasks do not change between a 35' & 50'er. You only have 1 engine to install, 1 water system to install, 1 stearing system to install, 1 plumbing system, 1 fuel system, 1 kitchen cooking system, 1 anchor system, etc.. The labor hours will be the same for these systems unless the larger boat installs fancier upgrades. Cost wise will be similar also unless the larger boat installs more equipment. One example would be adding a second head to the larger boat. But the plumbing system does not double in cost because we now have 2 toilets. Piping, tanks and pumps remaine the same so the increase in cost is just for the extra toilet. Most mfg's like to market their boats to the public as the larger the boat the greater the cost. The truth; however, is that they make a heck of a lot more profit on the bigger boat. Same issue applies to auto-makers. They make proportionally much more profit on the Lincoln than on the pinto. Some of the suppliers to the boat building industry have adopted similar pricing strategy. Shop around because they are ripping you off charging 42% more for parts on the larger boat. As a last resort, build the expensive part yourself, if you cannot purchase it at a reasonable price.

Have a Great Day !
ecflyer

[AppleNation]

Thanks Ecflyer.

So you are saying I should build myself a super yacht?

LOL

But seriously... Solid advice... thanks.

[apex1]

Originally Posted by marshmat

We get it, Richard. Your money is strong, ours is not, and our friendly neighbours south of the 49th... well, theirs is different every time you check.

Your estimate of 5 pounds of boat per hour sounds reasonable for an amateur build. I haven't built my large boat yet- it's coming, eventually- but I've heard numerous reports of 10-tonners coming in at 4000 to 5000 hours, 5 lb/h would be 4400 hours for a 10 t (22000 lb) boat. If your pros are churning out boat at 15 pounds an hour, that's more like 1500 h for the same boat.... very fast indeed.


I'm getting the impression, TeddyDiver, that Apple might be thinking of building regular production boats. Simplifying the design- yes, for sure, that can speed things up. I'm still not entirely clear on what kind of boat he has in mind though.

Take care Matt...my indication was related with a 90ft boat of 140000lbs!
To scale that number linear down misleads for several reasons.
I.e. plumbing and wiring is not a big difference done in 10ft or 30ft lenght.

I have a tiny little lobster boat 28ft in wood Epoxy under construction here, done for a friend. That ends up @ about 4lbs per manhour !!! Built by Pro´s!
see attachment
sorry very small picture but my Turkish Internet provider is terrible slow on uploading!

edit: Thank you ecflyer... very much on the spot !! You posted while I was uploading. And you made clear what I want to express.
I hope you enjoy the fruit of your task for as long as possible. I can really imagine what you are going through and adore you for that. I don´t have the time for such adventure, and if, I would fear it. Thanks.......

Regards
Richard

[apex1]

Just two more images, the right one shows a 6.5 meter launch around 4lbs per manhour too.

I hope I am not boring the audience by repeating some statements.

Regards
Richard

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by apex1

I hope I am not boring the audience by repeating some statements.

Statements?? Keep them coming if they are accompanied with pictures like that

[apex1]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Statements?? Keep them coming if they are accompanied with pictures like that

Sorry, what did i miss? Or whats wrong with the pictures

Regards
Richard

[TeddyDiver]

Sorry.. I meant to be polite but as it happens every now and then.. I don't make myself clear..
Weil Sie uns diese schöne booten ziegen, finden ich unmöglich zu lesen was Sie schreiben..
Hope I didn't make any major mistakes. It's a long time since writing in germany..

[apex1]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Sorry.. I meant to be polite but as it happens every now and then.. I don't make myself clear..
Weil Sie uns diese schöne booten ziegen, finden ich unmöglich zu lesen was Sie schreiben..
Hope I didn't make any major mistakes. It's a long time since writing in germany..

I did not feel you were unpolite.

Ja, das geht so. Das Deutsch könnte besser sein, wie mein Englisch auch.

Regards
Richard

[Tad]

Boats do not change size linearly only. When length increases so does beam and hull depth (sheer to fairbody). Thus internal volume, displacement, and construction man hours, changes with the cube of the length. Double the length, beam, and depth, will increase construction hours 8 times! (2*2*2=8) See the Law of Mechanical Similitude for a reference.

3.5 pounds of finished boat (not displacement as that usually includes payload & liquids) per man hour is about average in a decent (yacht finish) yard. 4 pounds per hour for a cold-molded boat is good going. 5 pounds per man hour is flying. A medium finish 38' wooden (plank on frame)motoryacht in a good Maine yard is 4500 man hours. Maltese Falcon was 1.5 million man hours for 1200 tons of yacht. That's about 1.75 pounds per man hour, reflecting a very complex vessel. A Little Harbour 53 (Taiwan glass production) was about 3.7. A Hinckley Sou'wester 42 was about 9500 hrs or 4.1 pounds per man hour.

Comparing a 35' and a 50' yacht the man hours will be about double for similar finish. Man hours might be closer if you did not increase the beam or depth, but there are many more parts in a 50' than there are in a 35'. The 35' will have a beam of, say 12', and depth of 6'. The 50' will have a beam of 14' and depth of 7.5'. Thus we are comparing 35*12*6=2520 and 50*14*7.5=5250. These numbers are referred to by yacht designers as a "Cubic Number".

The usual 35' boat has interior plan A, a galley, simple saloon with opposing seats, a head, and a vee-berth. Fifty-footers are rarely arranged this way. In addition to the above the 50' will have a larger saloon and galley, one or two more sleeping cabins, another head or two, and vastly more complex systems. Look at the fresh water system alone. The 35' will have 2 sinks, 2 tanks, and a hand pump. The 50' will have 3-4 tanks, 3-4 sinks, a deck shower, a hot water circut, a pressure set plus a hand pump, and probably a watermaker with generator to run it!

[marshmat]

A good post, Tad.

It begs the question though- why, exactly, does the larger boat need to be more complicated? It's true that in practice, the larger boat generally is more complicated. But that doesn't mean it has to be.

It's often said (but I've never seen this backed up) that the hull accounts for something like 15% of the total build hours. The rest being propulsion, plumbing, rigging, interior finish, painting, etc., all of which will also add to the ongoing maintenance expenses.

While some folks like to have all the luxuries aboard a 50-footer that's worth $700k or so, I suspect quite a few people would be quite happy with a simpler, large boat if it could be had for the same price as a smaller boat with lots of luxury and complex systems.