Chinese Boatbuilders??

[david@boatsmith]

Landlubber perhaps you don't know what we have bee doing prior to the last six months or even the last ten years cheers David

[Ike]

This reminded me of a conversation I had with the owner of a Taiwanese built Trawler Yacht, back in the late 80's. After answering his question I asked him how he liked his boat. He said he liked it fine, it was a really good boat. But, he said, unfortunately it came as a loosely assembled kit and after spending several years putting all the pieces together properly it was a really good boat. "If I had wanted to buy a kit, I would have bought one."

[Manie B]

Ike you are very correct

several years putting all the pieces together properly

[the1much]

thats cause he read the directions,,hehe

[StrandedMariner]

Originally Posted by david@boatsmith

Landlubber perhaps you don't know what we have bee doing prior to the last six months or even the last ten years cheers David

I have seen Chinese boat building for the past 10 years, and I am not impressed. And I am not only talking about the 'quality'. I have been screwed over so many times in this country. Unless there is some major shift in mind set here, I stay away from teaming up with any Chinese boat builder.

[jusembo]

I understand very well you felling but please don't generalize.
Don't make an universal reality.
Sure it's not easy to settle a good and long term partnership wit local manufacturers but it's possible and if you have experience, ability and knowledge of this particular environment you even can realise it with a high percentage of success.
On another side you still have the opportunity to run it by yourself what many foreigners (include myself) do by opening WOFE (Whole Owned Foreign Enterprise). This is a quiet heavy structure but still affordable to small entrepreneurs.
Some sectors, and boatbuilding is one of them, are still under special policy to allow foreign control.
My personal advise to potential, small entrepreneur is to start business carefully and slowly and always be on the lookout for reliable persons who may sometimes appear from unexpected origins don't throw yourself in thrusty relation with the first people even he seems great, generous and meet all your expectations (philosophical, financial or any others) you may regret it several years later; deeply. Be aware, attentive, receptive to any signs, try to translate and understand them correctly what is the most difficult task encountered by foreigners in this country.
Building business in China take time, there's no shortcut, especially for small and middle size investors.

An other "style" is just satisfy by buying finished, ready to sell product ... in what i personally don't believe, it's probably ok for large consumption stuff but not in a niche market as quality boats ... ok i know ... i'm also generalizing ... so lets say you will find few rare reliable Boatbuilders in China mainly are foreign owned including owned by bordering country that i will not name to avoid additional debates. David

[the1much]

the hard thing for you is that it isnt that people dont want to do business with you,,,they dont want to do business with your government,,,,,too much red tape,,,and the gov. WILL not try to help the foreigner if they have a problem with someone like you,,,,,,,say i pay you half for a boat up front,,,,,then in a year you say,,," sorry man,, we just cant do it,, and i dont have your money",,,,what can i do about it?,,go to the officials and they say,," we'll look into it",,,,and that IS the end of the story,,,,,,and i lose out,,,,because that IS what they do,,,,there are thousands of " for instances".
you need to become good,,,and then go to a place where your customers feel safe that if you screw up, they can have something done about it.
dude,, im not putting you down AT ALL... in fact i think that b oat looks badass,,,,,,its 1 of those things where YOUR not being judged,,,but your "Home" is.

[jusembo]

Important is the man not the home

Although half million foreigners are living only in Shanghai city; China is not a play ground, it's why i insisted in my previous messages that anyone who want to make business here especially in an un-mature field like boat building and put chances on his side need experience. If you just content yourself by sending 50% deposit and waiting you boat to be done without even visit the yard your chances approaching close to zero.
There are much more peoples that we can imagine who're seeing business in this way.
Every system has his own security management, you need to know the mechanic to reduce the danger, evaluate the risk and the profit you can get from.
I met many so-called business man ... who believed in miracles and for who China was synonym of easy earning before to become synonym of descent into Hell. Theses guys are now sitting home behind their computers blaming and spitting; creating realities on peoples, countries and system instead of reappraise them self.


Stay home it's more comfortable and safe

[the1much]

hmmm,,, i used to build yachts in the millions of dollars,,,and the "owner" would sometimes show up,,,but not often,,they usually had a surveyor do the visits,,and your asking now that people take a "chance" with their money,,when they KNOW that the "authorities" will not stand behind them if theres problems,,,,,thats a point that can NOT be argued against,,,,theres thousands of examples to show this.,,,,and why are the business men that you have met such idiots?,, because their "want-to-be" business people with NO business sense,,,and their also the only ones willing to take such a high risk with their money,,,oh wait,,,9.9 times out of 10 ,,, its not even their money,,, its poor people that they swindled into investing in them.
and i dont say this to be rude what-so-ever. ,,like i said,,,,its not YOUR fault that we dont "invest",, and thats sad,,,because if you learn a few more basics,, you'd be a good builder,,,,,but your also to quick to think your already a builder,,,,,,just because you build 1 or 2 boats dont make you a builder,,,but this isnt "putting you down",,not at all,,,but to be honest,,, you think you guys (you and your helpers) are WAY better then you are.
i can make a boat that wouldnt float,, has NO insides,,,,but i could make it look like it was the best boat you've ever seen.,,,,,,my boat wouldnt be worth calling a "boat" until it has been proven to be a "boat".

[jusembo]

High profit / High risk
Low profit / Low risk



Every level of countrie's developpement reflect a level of risk. If you plane to buy/manufacture your boat in China, Brasil or Senegal you will be confronted to a specific level of risk. The ration is not worst in China than in another under/middle/high developped country. I will personnaly said it's better it's the reason why so many investors are here but sure it depend on what importance you may attach to every component of the study.
For exemple: following TI corruption organisation http://www.transparency.org/policy_r...dices/cpi/2007
China is rated 72th from 179 country where Thailand is 84 and Russia 150 ... HK is rathed 14th fare befor US that is 20th not so nice for N°1 isn't it?.
Most of Chinees manufacturers owned companies in HKG so you may have the opportunity to sign your contract there.
Another safe solution is to make business with foreign owned factories as i am, there are several in Zuhai industrial district and you may envisage to place your order at their head office in their original country but don't expect incredible prices. I will be happy to take your order in Belgium, i have no problem with this. Is Belgium safe enough for you ?

As you see solutions exist ... but as we say in French "Si tu veux le beurre, l'argent du beurre et le sourire de la crémière..." translate "If you want butter, money and the smile of the sales-girl"

[Landlubber]

David,

Nothing has changed and nothing is going to change till workers get BASIC training in boatbuilding skills....note I said boatbuilding skills, not cabinetmaking.....

There is ONLY one way anyone will get a decent boat out of China, it HAS to be supervised by a qualified or very experienced BOATBUILDER.....there are sooooooo many subtle little things that cabinetmakers do not undrestand about boatbuilding, bilge pumps, enging exhaust arrangements, toilet plumbing, current world standards, rigging, painting, composites....I could go on and on.

A real boat is a miniature city, it has an electrical system, engineering system, steerung system, sanitation system, electronis, generators, and all these little suckers need to be bpth compatible with themselves as well as the marine environment with which they will live in after they leave China....

it is AFTER they leave China that the problems will show thier ugly little faces.

Anyhow mate, enough of this bashing, I do honestly wish you all the best, i work in China myself and love being here, I see all the great changes that are happening (and all the boat problems too unfortunately). seriously, stick with what you really know, the rest will come easy.

[the1much]

honk kong IS china,,,theres NO difference NOW.
and noone said those "other" countries are better,,,,i wouldnt send 1 dollar to those places either ,,,and theres a BIG difference between "risk" and "stupidity"
and you have the proper "paper work" and licenses to work and sell in belgium?
if my order is taken in belgium is my boat ( the thing that matters where it is being made) being built under their authority?

[jusembo]

Landlubber

We're in 2008
Men walked on the moon 40 years ago
We're not, here, talking about hydropteres or high-tech catamarans ... just common boats ... ok they need bilge pumps, toilet plumbing and other curiosities but lets come back to the reality.
With basic knowledge in laminating fibers, sealing, paintings, electricity, motorisation and others you have enough to build a normal decent boat ... the most important is to be carreful and loving to do nice & professional job.
I admit that this last point is not common in China due to it's recent history but when you as a factory GM have it in you soul you can require it and little by little contaminate your staff.

Dvd

[jusembo]

the1much

You seems to know "much" about China, Hongkong and so many others

Have ever been there? Have you ever been really interested about it ??

Please make me a pleasure:
look at you in the mirror, ask this question to yourself - answer in silence and most important ... keep the answer for your. Don't publish it anywhere

I will not answer to your question where you want to know: if it's under Belgiaan authority to order a boat in Belgium with a Belgiaan company ... because i'm afraid i will fall groggy before the end.

Really, the1much, you should play somewhere else. I will search for and recommend you some other site more suitable for you

[the1much]

ummm dudbumbo,,,,,,i was being nice,,,wasnt putting you down,,,was just stating FACTS,,,and somehow KNEW that when you was asked about the "legality" of your "mouth" you would fold,,,,,,is sad,,, i was really on your side,,, was stating facts as to why it would be hard for you to find "customers",,, but since you THINK you know what your doing,,,, ask yourself this, standing in front of a mirror naked,,,,,,,"6 months ago i was asking how to cold mold,,,,now im on the same forum trying to tell the SAME people that i know what im doing and how good i am"
and dumbo,,,,if you wanna PLAY,,,i will
but,,be sure that i dont play very nice in the sandbox.
guess this will be the last time i stand up for a china person.
and yet you wonder what gives you guys a bad reputation. "!"