Building Fiberglass Boats

[gonzo]

Tunnels is talking about molds and not plugs.

Originally Posted by gonzo

Tunnels is talking about molds and not plugs.

That was the polite version..................

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Tunnels is talking about molds and not plugs.

Tunnels was talking about the plug as well ‘‘Plus you have a plug that has to be sent to the tip , so much waste !!!!!’’.

I didn't realize that you were talking about the molds only. Sorry about that.

Regards,

Angel

[PAR]

Again, it would be wise to wait for the origional poster to describe their goals, rather then obscuring the thread, with comments of what others think others have intended in their posts.

[tunnels]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I've surveyed several molds sold as boats. They are full of structural and other problems. Also, they are very heavy. Only dishonest builders would get involved in something like that.

I hear what you are saying but you have screwed with what i was saying !!
If i gave you a order to build 8 boats would you build plugs and moulds ??
How could you justify the cost of building a non reuseable plug and a mould to build just make 8 boats and then scrap it !
im damned if i could !!.
Why did those people turn moulds into boats anyway ??

Strange !why hasnt someone come up with a better way to make moulds to make boats in that does not involve so much waste of time and materials , the cnc is a blessing when you can find a skilled operator with skills to be able to drive one and get the best from it !!

[wcnfl]

Thanks Everyone for input...it been a week or so since I 've been on sorry for the delay.

Here is what I'm tring to figure out.

The best way (least amount of money) to produce a production boat that is a good riding boat for its size (18') that is safe and well balanced...I would like to sell the boats...I would hope 6-10 a year...How does one know this before investing in molds? invest in a designer? I've sold what designer have come up with for 15 years... (not always impressed)

Here is my background I have sold 14'-36' production boats for 15 years(ave 70-80 boats a year). I have average mechanical skills, I have built a few small plywood boats, I have built racecars, houses, workshops. I have a basic knowledge on building and design and very little knowledge of factory production.

I would like to start my own boat company. (I don't have thousands of dollars)

Someone once told me if you want to make a million in the boat business start with 2!

Obviously I know I'm not going to get rich building a couple of boats a year nor do I want to get poor! its more of a passion for me...(Dream)

Here where I'm at I've bought some plans for a plywood boat from a designer and looking at it I'll spend a couple thousand building this boat and when its done its done...then you move on to the next.

In the boat world that I'm in.... plywood is looked down upon...fiberglass with no wood is what people in my world think is better. I'm not saying that is true...I just think it would be easier for me to sell a fiberglass boat.

So I don't want to waste the little money I have on plywood boats if my goal is to build fiberglass boats....

But here is the question should I build plywood boats and try to educate my customers to why they are better or build fiberglass boat to fit in with the norm?

I know what most will say put your money in your 401k and leave it to your kids....

Here is my motto
"All our dreams can come true, if we have the courage to pursue them."
Walt Disney

Thanks in advance for your input postive or negetive.

[tunnels]

wcnfl
You could build boats in fibre glass inside a wooden frame work but instead of using plywood use glass panels made to shape !!
What i have just said is going to raise some eye brows !!
On smaller boats they use stitch and tape method , this is the basic idea just up dated . The panels can be made on a good shiney surface but start off with a layer of peel ply cloth and made to a pattened shape with recess along all the edges to take the glass to join the sheets together using glass tapeing inside and out . This method id not new at all and boats to the size of 40 feet can be built . There a place in Australia that has been doing this method for quite some time . To perfect the way of making a boat you would have to do some trial and error work . I have been using this method for quite some time to build decks and cabins on olderglass boats that needed revamping .once you get the idea of how it work the rest the rest just comes naturally .

[tunnels]

Have to think beyond having to make a plug , make a mould , where in most cases is a huge amount of time and money involved before you have even made a boat that could be a total disaster !all this Simply to make 2 boats a year . Boat yards are full of old has beens, dreams that were surposed to be a replacement for everything else before it .
Its a mind set 99 % of boat companies are locked in .
Sorry iv seen this happen so many times in the past 25 years . Waste its called !! waste of effort , waste of materials , wast of time !! boating people are the worst dreamers in the world , I know first hand because i am one myself .

[CaptBill]

Please someone tell us why this is not a good way to build a boat...A dream boat.

Start with good plans in Cad format
"Slice" the design along the horizontal plane into 2" sections.
Cnc cut the sections into pink 2" foam from Home Depot. Now we have the boat outer form.
Step 1:Now we just laminate the the foam pieces with 3" biaxial tape brick by brick fashion. Each "brick" is laminated on three sides, all of the exterior covered, top and bottom only overlap say 1/2 inch leaving a tab. Produces a "C" channel.
So the next slice layer is done as before, each 1/2 inch overlap bonded to the next.
When done you can remove the foam leaving a nice hull hull "skeleton".
Now we have a foundation to "honeycomb" our hull with.
Step 2: Now we build the inner wall by laying our "honeycomb network" with a layer of 1" foam strips along the vertical plane every 3-4". These bond in with the tabs from the "mold" layer making a 1"thick superlight hull

This is the simplest way to explain this technique for clarity. Your imagination is the limit to how you proceed after the first step.
1. You can use cnc and make the second layer an very intricate honeycomb build up super light/superstrong
2. No cnc.Just use strips of 1" thick foam and bend into mold and glass for speed.

Materials list
Good 3d file
4x8 Pink insulation
3" Fiberglass tape
No blush epoxy

Tools
Breadknife
Pair of scissors
4x8 CNC (only needed for first phase)

[CaptBill]

wcnfl,
Just think....
Lowest up front cost to sell your boats
No skilled labor involved. Anyone can tape.
Build brick by brick a custom boat even these fellas here will drool over
Build just the bow to start. A cutaway revealing details of your custom one off system. Let them feel how light and strong it is.Embed nav lights IN the hull (use superclear epoxy here). Make them a see through underwater section to look at fisheys. Thicken the wall thickness and make it unsinkable.Doll it up with some nice 3d carvings outside.
Use your demo showpiece to get deposits and there you go.

[wcnfl]

Capt Bill
Sounds interesting I just can't visualize what you are saying...has this been done before? in production?

Tunnels
GRP pannels...how would you form them to the hull shape? any mfg doing it? any sites that I could see the process?

PAR
I think you are right on...but the question how to develop a hull design with out popping it off someone else...how to start up a small boat company...build plywood boats? get the hull to work then build mold off of that? (wouldn't the balance be off if you switch the same design from plywood to glass) or do most small companies copy proven hulls?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts...

[SamSam]

How you go about it might depend somewhat on what sort of shape you are dealing with. If you have flat shapes that can be developed from plywood or sheet material is one thing, if you have compound curves is another.

[souljour2000]

If I were you I would look at building a small weekender sloop,sprit-rig, or cat-boat that would appeal to the "kayak set" who want to upgrade to a sailboat. I would not rule out polyethelene....so obviously I wouldn't make it too "traditional" anything...except make sure it's safe and can be pulled by a Hyundai SUV or a cross-over.

Maybe a 16-footer or so and around 1,200 max. lbs with positive floatation. I really think there might be a large market for this kind of boat if it could be sold for under $5,000....

[CaptBill]

Wcnfl,
Any shape or size you want.
Have a look here. Doing it like them except you make a C channel, fused together forming a tab (which, actually, may not be necessary. Probably just do just like these guys then build inner layer. Would be less fairing. Easy to vacuume bag. No seams)

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/mes...tml?1123690291

Google search SLICING 3D RHINO if this link fails

[wcnfl]

Capt Bill,
Neat stuff...I like it!

So if I follow you design 3D Model, cut it out, assemble foam, cover with glass, use this as plug to build hull mold...

Will gel coats melt the foam? or do you lay thin layers of fiberglass thin apply wax, pva, gel, fiberglass for mold?