Yacht Design School?

Alik,

Fair enough.

I have nosed around a little bit and found information on a couple of accident reports. One was the maxfun report discussed earlier in this thread. Another was on the failure of the yacht Cynthia. In the case of Cynthia there were two diametrically opposed reports. One by the Coast Guard, which found no blame on the designer, and the other by Texas A&M which put heavy blame on the designer. I didn't look at the actual reports on the Cynthia, just some summaries in the news, so take it with a pinch of salt.

 

I suggest another criteria, for efficiency of yachts: take few racing sailboat designers and compare race results of those designed by NA graduates (or offices hiring them) and alumni of design schools. This could be also interesting in time retrospective; I believe 20-30 years ago result would be different.

 

Sure, you could use that criterion if you want. No harm in doing that, except that racing sailboats are probably a rather small part of the yachting world. It would, however, be an interesting comparison. It would not surprise me if degreed naval architects came out ahead on that comparison. On the other hand, it would not surprise me if they didn't.

 

I’m sorry but you are mistaken about the Westlawn Institute curriculum. It does cover structural design and the concepts involved. The work required is not secondary to the course. In fact, detailed structural calculations are required for every boat in the entire second half of the program.

This information has been posted before, but certain individuals here just choose to ignore it. A good engineer bases his or her conclusions on facts not fancy.

Westlawn Institute alumni are highly successful. In order to be so they must be getting a sound grounding from their studies. With regard to structural calculations, there are only three possibilities here:

1) Our alumni are learning about structural design from somewhere else. Considering how many successful alumni there are, this is not sensible.

2) Knowledge of such calculations is not required to be a good designer. This is obviously not true.

3) Westlawn Institute students are being taught structural design in the Westlawn program, which is the case.

Regarding Westlawn Institute, here are the facts:

For over eighty years, Westlawn Institute has done only one thing—teach boat design. Westlawn has trained more practicing boat designers than any other school in the world. Many of Westlawn’s alumni are among the most famous and successful boat designers in history—see:

http://216.119.80.31/who/success.asp
http://216.119.80.31/gallery/gallery.asp

Westlawn Institute is and has been accredited in the U.S. for decades. Accreditation is a lengthy and rigorous process, which reviews all aspects of a school’s operation and particularly its curriculum. The accreditation process is repeated every five years. Just recently RINA reviewed the curriculum of Westlawn’s Yacht & Boat Design Program, and accredited it as well.

If you are looking for practical, reliable, tested information about boat design from an internationally accredited institution, Westlawn Institute is an excellent place to go.

Dave Gerr, Director
Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology
www.westlawn.edu

 

Dave

You just need to be clear what it is you’re accredited for. You’re implying a certain “type” of accreditation but not actually saying what it is? Being accredited just means the course is recognised, that is all. It is a course that teaches small craft design and RINA say's, ok..so it is. Well done, nice to see, but beyond that I’m not sure what else you’re suggesting by saying you’re accredited?

Can you explain please?

 

Dave
Unless you changed the course recently I’d disagree

What you call structural calculations are scantling rules or simplified calculation, put the numbers in and turn the handle!
That's not fundamental material and engineering properties.

You imply you already include basic beam theory ? but from my own involvement with Westlawn Alumni I don’t think it's very well understood.

I also think the following material not included, should be clear to any designer that has any hope of designing outside of a class or similar design approval process:

How does the level of end fixity change extreme fibre stress
How much end fixity can you rely on in typical joints
What is a SN curve, where do you get them from, how are they applied applied
Why do SN curves change significantly in wet conditions
What is the difference between shear and tensile strength and how do they relate to ultimate tensile strength and yield strength and to those SN curves
What is buckling, what are the danger signs in a design where you would consider getting a buckling study done, who does such a study.
What’s the most effective way of preventing buckling.
How do you properly design a bolted connection
How can you safely introduce lightening holes in a structure.

The other significant area of concern is Fatigue. This is arguably the most significant cause of material failure in naval architecture. Unfortunately most fatigue failures go unreported unless they kill people. Fatigue must be a major part of any basic material course for any designer that tries to design anything to first principles. It’s also a significant boon to a rule based designer to understand those important principles.

Westlawn designers are very competent in some areas but the engineering skills of the people I’ve worked with have been more or less non-existent. I don’t see that as a problem so long as they are aware that they might have compromised their structure in one way or another and should get their designs checked.

Many successful designers have a team behind them and aren’t actually designing on their own in the back room. Simply listing successes of Alumni and implying that their success indicates that they apparently learn engineering basics doesn't hold.

So would it be possible to add material to one of the units or worthwhile adding a new unit?
If you’d like help compiling material I think several of us here would be happy to assist .

 

2MikeJones:
I have similar experience. As small craft hydrodynamics is my primary field I would also say that knowledge of Westlawn alumni on performance predictions is very shallow as well. Maximum what they can do is to use software, or apply some simplified formulas. When it comes to such basics as friction extrapolator or residual resistance they are completely lost.

Unfortunately seems school is not willing to discuss contents of course and possible improvements.

P.S. And adding school advertisements with unsupported claims, not related to discussion at the end of every post is really annoying.

 

Mike,
Thanks for your offer to help and your input. I have to say again that you're mistaken about the course content. Almost all the topics you specifically mention have been included in the curriculum for decades. I added the few that weren't since I took over the school.

If you'd like a look at just one of the reference texts used, it is "Aluminum Design Manual 2010," by The Aluminum Association.

Of course, all curriculums benefit from continual improvement. We've made immense additions and updates to all aspects of the program and will continue to do so. In fact, a large update is underway with new texts on structural design fundamentals, composite structures, and aluminum structures in the works. It's my hope that they will be the best references specifically on boat structures available.

Dave Gerr, Director
Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology
www.westlawn.edu

 

I would be very interested to have a look and review, if that is possible?

 

If this is your primary source of reference I would be concerned, as it is ostensibly a small sales brochure. It may have useful “general design” info, but so do many other similar types (I have plenty on my book shelf from companies touting for my business). Far better to have a proper established and respected structural design text book and then another on materials/metallurgy.

Those sales brochure types, are just plug in number out pops answer. Great for getting quick answer, but no much else, as requires little or no understanding of the engineering principals behind them. Here is a very good one:
http://materialteknologi.hig.no/Lettvektdesign/Al and the sea/Alcan anglais chap.00.intro.pdf

 

The "Aluminum Design Manual 2010," by The Aluminum Association is a 440-page technical handbook and manual. You might find a copy useful.

Dave Gerr, Director
Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology
www.westlawn.edu

 

I may do, but probably won’t tell me anything new. I have some 200 plus books and over 2000 technical papers and journals in my library. I’m also currently writing my own book on designing with aluminium.

On the face of it, it appears to be very similar to BS 8118, just another reference guide.
http://www.standardsdirect.org/standards/standards5/StandardsCatalogue24_view_7285.html

 

Aluminium design

Regarding aluminium design in Westlawn course.

I am looking a Westlawn Students Guide, (c) D.Gerr, 2005

Basically it says that course material (p.111) is 'odd and outdated', so asks students to refer to 'Elements of boat strength' (the book that has nothing to do with issues touched by MikeJohns). This advice is repeated few times on next pages, and there are no other references for any advanced books/manuals.

Moreover, on p.112 it says that aluminium is 'anisotropic material'.

So... any comment?

 

Yes... I have a comment.
For F#$%'s sake Alik... give it up will you!
Your opinion of Dave Gerr and Westlawn is now well established. (Just as I'm sure his opinion of you now is...)
At least AH and MJ have been measured in their comments, suggestions and criticisms and both have generally made them in a positive manner.
I suggest that it is time to put all this behind us and move on.

 

Alik,

I don't know what the text says that you are referring to.

However, I have a question that leads to a comment. Are the aluminum plates and other shapes used in boat building manufactured by a cold rolled process? If so then they are anisotropic, and even annealing does not necessarily remove the anisotropy.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359646208007811

I suspect that even hot rolled materials would have some anisotropy.