Westlawn School

[JCFARER]

Ahoy there mates...

Need a little help. My son has given some serious opinion to the wife about taking the coursework at Westlawn. I apparantly will have to dish out the $8K plus $$ for all the other stuff that will need to be purchased. "I don't mind the money" (my wife said that I'm supposed to say this) but when I went to see what kinds of books are part of their curriculum...they only have supplementary books that are required to be purchased in order to graduate.

Has anyone here gone through all 4 courses and have a list of the books and their authors that I can research to see if this $8K plus will be worth the finances? I ask this because it's distant learning and feel like I need to protect the money that can go towards building a boat instead. Actually, and hopefully, I will be able to make a massive argument as to why he should get a @$$%^%^^%%*** job and pay for it himself (I paid for my masters degree when I was growing up) but the wife say's that I'm suppossed to know "that was different".

Any help will be greatly appreciated and if you should think about joining me in a united front it would be even better.

Jay

[CDBarry]

Please read the various threads on Westlawn and a career in the small vessle industry in general.

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

You have a very tricky call here - obvious - since you have bothered to put it to this forum...

First off - Westlawn is a good bit - it is registered (somehow) within the States - it was affiliated with MIT and The Arts School of Design on the west coast within their automotive design school which is a brain pool for 'the big three' - as they stand just now I cannot say...

Some of the most motivated and famous designers have Westlawn under their belt including Dave Gerr and Tom Fexas and hell - even Dan Parker - whom I have worked for - (search Monaro Marine) - BUT - being distance learning your kid has to very - EXTREMELY motivated and able to create and MAINTAIN a schedule for himself - when I did it it was open ended - now they have a set time for each of the four modules and a 'no money back' offer against same - very much a contract - you and the school - you and your kid...

Now bear in mind the cost for this and him staying at home versus same hitting you up for undergrad and further studies at an out of state school - that sounds like a second mortgage to me - and if he stays at home let him do the lawn work, the kitchen mods, walk the dog, take out the trash, clean the garage (it can work in your favour 'out of kind repayment') - an enforced slave for his future - what else are kids for...

Westlawn might be a good option against same - if I were you I would take him to the pub and draw up a contract - front him the money under him getting a job a paying it back if he is SERIOUS about things - free rides are for senators sons...

I will stop there - and go listen to some old CCR tunes...

'when you ask them how much should we give - the answers always - more, more, more... - then they point the cannon at you - yah - it ain't me - it ain't me - I ain't no senators son - yah'...

OK - the truth - I am for the kid really - you piss him off now - think about when you have to retire - who are you going to call to move your bits to the home...

Cheers - best of...

SH.

[JCFARER]

Hello CDBarry...

Care to point in which direction?

Thanks
Jay

[JCFARER]

Hello Sean Herron...

I guess this means that you won't be in the trenches with me when I make my last stand...but all your ideas sound great. I'm just not real convinced that there are enough Westlawn successes to justify this school instead of a regular college education. Know what I mean? Get college and then get this sounds fine to me but not the other way around.

Don't get me wrong, I want for him what he wants for himself but how many Westlawn grads are actually making enough to live and not exist. There may be a lot but I don't know more than you named and I saw on their site. It just seems that if he isn't successful at it then he has a non successful education and will have to get another, again.

How do they go from MIT to car design to Boat design? Geez...

Okay... if anyone has a list of the books that they use for coursework, ... you know...help me.

Thank's

Jay

[MRJones]

I just started Westlawn. I have a 4 year degree, a BS in business economics. I have been working in the marine field for 1 year. I have to agree that one has to be motivated to do this course. Here is the list that I asked for while I was looking at Westlawn. I hope this helps.



Tight Lines,

Matthew Jones

[JCFARER]

Ahoy Mr. Jones...

Thank's for the response. The PDF list you enclosed is the same one I looked at on their site which are the supplementary books that they require. I was more interested in looking at the technical content of the 28 books that they say is included in the tuition and the course is based upon.

The other PDF is a given because if the kid needs the tools then he needs the tools.

Fair winds...
Jay

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

Drinking black coffee and rye - morning after maintenance...

So it sounds like you are still looking for the old 3R's approach to life - which is justified - if the kid completes studies at a known college - it shows he has some sticking power for future 'working for the man' and he has some socialization skills - plus the job interviewer won't be asking 'what is Westlawn' - I agree that formal studies within a social group of people doing the same, the competition, the women, the pub down the road - all contribute to personal growth beyond the formality of the degree granted - where home study does not...

That said though wherever I have gone within the marine industries - Westlawn rang a familiar bell...

How about downloading trial versions of the CADD and 3D bits and trying them out - I would have to say that the student savings are pretty damned significant over commercial liscenses - kind of shows you how much these studios are making in profits...

Right - hope it all works out - lastly I agree the kid needs to at least make a showing at trying to meet entry requirements for a standard program of education - Westlawn should not be an excuse for fear of a proper college go around...

Yup...

SH.

[JCFARER]

Hello Sean Herron

Thank's for the post...was a little hard to follow, but I guess it said the same thing I'm thinking.

Jay

[chandler]

J.C.
Are you a multi degree holder earning a ton of money?
Is your kid an over or under acheiver. Does conventional college not appeal to him or her? Did they do so well in their sat's that you feel they should be in medical school? Did they do so poorly that community college is their only option. Do you care what they want to do? Is the bottom line of their income your only concern.
I grew up in a family that a degree was mandatory, fortunately my father mellowed with age. I was able to pursue my chosen field which after 21/2 years of university was carpentry. I've made a decent living building homes for the last 25 years. I'm now embarking on a new career as builder and designer of boats. Primarily for my own use. I live in Maine and want to sail to warmer climes, but I can't afford a home in Fl.
Take these ideas into consideration when you contemplate your childs future.
If the child is over 21, get a job and pay for it themselves!
chandler

[CDBarry]

Look under the education forum.

The point is that Westlawn should probably be considered the last resort if what is desired is a career as a designer in the marine industry. (If it's a hobby, then it doesn't matter).

Also, your son should try to investigate the field first - try to find a working design firm and get an informational interview.

In the general marine field there are a lot of low cost alternatives and support for higher education. The best school in the US, Webb Institute, has zero tuition, for example.

[JCFARER]

Hello there Chandler:

I will try to answer these as best I can although it doesn't exactly help me to get the list of books that I would like to scrutinize before paying for the course at West lawn.

Originally Posted by chandler

J.C.
Are you a multi degree holder earning a ton of money?
I guess I can be looked at that way...I'm double degreed and worked in my field until I was able to retire comfortably at the age of 42 from the interest on investments I made overseas. I don't measure money by weight, by if had to make a good guess, I don't think I make it by the ton.

Is your kid an over or under acheiver.
I believe him to be both depending on his mood at the time and whether it benefits him to be one or the other, but it isn't consistently long term in either end.

Does conventional college not appeal to him or her?
Actually it did for a little while...but see answer above for more clarity.

Did they do so well in their sat's that you feel they should be in medical school?
Actually they did, I think my daughter maxed out hers and he did about 1150, but I never really thought about pushing them to be anything outside of what they wanted to be in life. I just gave them direction and guidance and protected them from deceipt and deceivers.

Did they do so poorly that community college is their only option.
Nope... I can actually say that I'm proud of their accomplishments, but it's for this very reason that I say that Westlawn is not his only option. I always tell them to "be the best that they can be and do the best that they can do and then be and do everything else." It's sick I know, but on closer inspection a doctor can be a nurse but a nurse can't be a doctor.

Do you care what they want to do?
That question is self answered because if I didn't I wouldn't be here looking for answers in order to better advise him on future endeavors. In the end, he may do what he wants anyway, but failing shouldn't become the normal because you get used to it fast and then make it a practicing habit.

Is the bottom line of their income your only concern.
If it was, I definitely would not be considering Westlawn. But you better believe that it is definitely a concern right after his young and hurried desires.

I grew up in a family that a degree was mandatory, fortunately my father mellowed with age. I was able to pursue my chosen field which after 21/2 years of university was carpentry.
Good for you. I hope that he also decides to continue his trade (electrical). I come from a long line of tradesmen but some of us didn't just decide to frame homes, we decided to study the materials and design those home also. Me, I grew up in a family where everyone wanted a degree because no one had it.

I've made a decent living building homes for the last 25 years. I'm now embarking on a new career as builder and designer of boats. Primarily for my own use. I live in Maine and want to sail to warmer climes, but I can't afford a home in Fl.
Again, good for you. I don't care what you do for a living as long as it doesn't include putting a gun in your hands and taking someone elses living from their pockets. I wish you well in your endeavor to become a builder and designer of boats and whom said that you have to live in florida to sail in warm climates? I sail all the time and the minute I get past So. Carolina, its warm and its cheap. Live on board if money is really the issue. I have the money to splurge when I cruise and I still wash my clothes by hand. I do my own repairs and sew my own sails. If you want the comforts of home stay home.

Take these ideas into consideration when you contemplate your childs future.
Chandler, It is an indisputable fact that those concerns, all those concerns, crossed my mind from the moment the children were conceived, unequivocally and long before you thought about those ideas, but thank's for the advise.

If the child is over 21, get a job and pay for it themselves!
That's what I say, but I also remember that my father took the time to overlook my stupid attacks and didn't allow the brain fart to cloud my judgement. He showed me options and possible outcomes of my decisions and then gave me direction and advise. I need to do this for him because in the end, I made good decisions and I made bad decisions, but I never suffered from tunnel vision in order to get my way "no matter what".
chandler

Now, all people of this forum if we can just focus on the question at hand instead of making this a blast daddy (grandaddy) session... do you have a list of the books for the Westlawn courses so that I can take a looksie at whether they are written by starving playwrights or if they will offer technical, scientifically proven and published data. Math is math, he can learn it in college, art is art, he can learn that in college, naval architecture or marine enginnering he can learn in college. Westlawn should be supplemental to a college degree because with a degree at least you can take on the most thankless jobs of all...teaching. The wifey is upset now because she was a teacher.

If you find yourself needing some advise in the future...e-mail me, I now feel committed to help after this whole personal rhetoric. Geez, you and everyone here now knows enough to be family. Oh, the wifey said to lighten up a little bit and don't be so angry.

Jay

[mackid068]

Always, always always listen to your wife! (I'm not married but I know this from experience, as should everybody)

[fede]

It is a very delicate situation you find your self in JC.
I guess future today is so uncertain for all of us...
I'm living in a country (Italy) where things are all messed up,sometimes i meet people with a good degree that are starving,sometimes i meet people that did not complete the high school that make a lot of money...of course sometimes I meet people with a deg. that make even more money!! eheh
What I get now that I'm entering my 30's is that if you want something bad enough you will get it deg. or no deg.
it's the person you are that makes things different...and of course, school helps becoming a better (sometimes worst) person...no doubt.
Sometimes kids need theire parents taking decisions for them,I've seen many friends taking bad decisions and regreting later.
Sit down with yuour kid, with college brochures a detailed westlawn brochure, some facts about the people coming out of those schools, explain deeply your concerns about his future,listen to his concerns,try to let him understand you have to join forces to make his life the best it can be...
Try not to separate your decision and his decision...try to make it one let him work on your point of view...let your self work on his point of view.

[Raggi_Thor]

I think you shold consider the MacNoughton school as well. There you pay as you go so it's less risky, also the fees are a bit lower and the teachers are practicing yact designers.
http://www.macnaughtongroup.com/school.htm