Westlawn School

[Zewe]

I am with CD Barry about shooting for an informational interview. How about contacting Dave Gerr and asking him for an interview.

Randy

[CDBarry]

Webb is underwritten by donations from its alums and the marine industry, so it actually has zero tuition. There is a room and board, and books charge there, however, but I don't think it's excessive (Webb alumis might be able to comment re food). I guess they hope to get it from the students later ...

[water addict]

Originally Posted by JCFARER

Hawdy...

I'm not really into convincing anyne to do what I think they should do. I want him to do what he wants, but not because of compulsion. He needs to look at this systematically and methodically and then decide with passion. It's for him and not me...

That's true- but if you are soliciting opinions in a public forum from people who work in the marine field....
It helps from a business perspective to have:
- qualifications
- successful, demonstrable experience.
He won't have experience, so qualifications can get him started to aquire the experience. Also, devoting oneself to be as qualified in a profession or field of endeavor, whatever it is, is the mark of quality craftsmanship. Deciding with passion may be fine if you are an artist, but if you are going to design a complex vehicle on which someone's life may hang in the balance, getting the best training you can might be prudent.

[JCFARER]

Originally Posted by water addict

That's true- but if you are soliciting opinions in a public forum from people who work in the marine field....
It helps from a business perspective to have:
- qualifications
- successful, demonstrable experience.
He won't have experience, so qualifications can get him started to aquire the experience. Also, devoting oneself to be as qualified in a profession or field of endeavor, whatever it is, is the mark of quality craftsmanship. Deciding with passion may be fine if you are an artist, but if you are going to design a complex vehicle on which someone's life may hang in the balance, getting the best training you can might be prudent.

Hello there water addict...from the sound of your name, you must be passionate about what you do...

I'm not certain that I was soliciting opinions in a public forum from people that work in the marine field. I remember asking for a list of books to scrutinize...but hey that's just an oversite. From one engineer to another...please pay attention to the details and eliminate oversites since "someones life may hang in the balance".

All in all, I agree with you 100% except for the passion part. There is silent passion and passion with a rage. Both bring results that have meaning. Without passion anything worth doing is worthless and it becomes a machinized procedure as a means to an end. Done passionately, there is meaningful purpose to the cause and the result is priceless and full of anima. ALIVE WITH ENERGY!!! <~~~Just a little joke there to break this up...

Thank's for your thoughts...

[JCFARER]

Originally Posted by Zewe

I am with CD Barry about shooting for an informational interview. How about contacting Dave Gerr and asking him for an interview.

Randy

Pirates abeam...
Prepare to repel boarders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you think that asking their Director and or any staff at the school might lead to conflicts of interest and little "truthful lies or lying facts" (the wifey loves the contradiction when I say that...). I can't after all ask the shark to stop smelling my blood now can I?

"I seeeeee" said the blind man after he fell in the hole. <~~This gives you an idea of my condition if I ask them to articulate their beliefs on the school...blind, in a hole and hurt, but completely lucid and clear about my condition.

[CDBarry]

Start at the beginning of the alphabet: http://www.antrimdesign.com/

Give Jim my regards.

[Willallison]

JC - not sure if you caught my post 1st time around, so I'll repeat the bones of it:

JC - I am almost through to the end of the Westalwn course. The text books are proprietry books written by recognised authors specifically for the course. Their 'cost' is covered by the tuition fees. All are in the process of undergoing a thorough modernisation. I would suggest that you talk directly to the school - they are very approachable and I'm sure would be very happy to answer any questions that you might have.
I have learned an enormous amount from doing the course. I would recommemd it to almost anyone. It is not the be-all-and-end-all - it is a 1st step into a career in yacht design (like all forms of education). Depending on what field your son wants to enter, it may or amy not be suitable - but note, it is not for the faint of heart (read motivation & dedication) there is a lot of work to be done and a lot to learn. Finsih it and he will have achieved something of which he can be proud.....

[Sean Herron]

Hello again...

You know - it sounds like (to me) that the McNoughton group thing might be a good compromise - you seem not to want to shell out the big bucks and you also seem suspicious of your sons commitment levels against doing so...

MN group looks like a way of getting your feet wet without commiting to getting across the lake - nice new metaphor...

Or popping the glass out of a 79 Pontiac and going dirt tracking on the weekend to see if you might want to spend umteen bucks on getting into NASCAR - your son can "get a feel" (maybe when he does he will forget about boats all together) - no wait - different topic far more long term money commitment too...

I say dip your toes first - then commit...

Yup...

SH.

[JCFARER]

Originally Posted by Willallison

JC - not sure if you caught my post 1st time around, so I'll repeat the bones of it:

JC - I am almost through to the end of the Westalwn course. The text books are proprietry books written by recognised authors specifically for the course. Their 'cost' is covered by the tuition fees. All are in the process of undergoing a thorough modernisation. I would suggest that you talk directly to the school - they are very approachable and I'm sure would be very happy to answer any questions that you might have.
I have learned an enormous amount from doing the course. I would recommemd it to almost anyone. It is not the be-all-and-end-all - it is a 1st step into a career in yacht design (like all forms of education). Depending on what field your son wants to enter, it may or amy not be suitable - but note, it is not for the faint of heart (read motivation & dedication) there is a lot of work to be done and a lot to learn. Finsih it and he will have achieved something of which he can be proud.....

Willallison...must have missed it. There was just so much to consume. Sorry!

Its good to hear that someone is almost finished with it and I appreciate your honesty about the level of commitment. I too am a little worried that he might be setting himself up for failure...it just seems like a fever came upon him and I can't figure out the cause.
Jay

[JCFARER]

Sean Herron...

This sounds like a great plan, but it seems short term. I like the idea of damage control.

Jay

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

Does the kid have a tech. mind - does he dream up and build things...

Does he have more artistic aptitude over mathematical...

Is he a romantic with thoughts of escape or travel...

Does he or did he like airplanes and the idea of flying...

Did he play with Lego and Meccano...

Does he like the idea of 'remote control'...

Today I kind of had some time to think about why I have ended up where I am now...

SH.

[Willallison]

Just one more comment that I think it's worth making.
You don't need to be a mathematical genius to understand and successfully complete the Westlawn course - at times there's a fair bit of it, but it's all pretty basic stuff....
I say this because that was my greatest concern before I started. It's over 20 years since I did any high-school maths, and my abilities are... well... lets just say ... limited

[dgerr]

Westlawn has produced more practicing small-craft designers than many of the other institutions in the world combined. Our alumni are a who's who of boat design. It's all posted on our website (along with a whole lot more information) for anyone to see at: http://216.119.80.31/who/success.asp

I haven't posted this list direct to boatdesign.net before because the list is quite long and because it's constantly being updated and enlarged. But maybe it's time I put it up . . . so it's below.

A list like this only covers the highlights. It doesn't include the many, many other alumni working as: surveyors, or at production-builders, as marina managers, and as designers in larger design offices. Some of these builders and offices have (and have had) two or three Westlawn alumni working currently, and others have hired nearly a dozen different Westlawn alumni over the years.

General review of the Westlawn website (http://www.westlawn.org/) will provide still more information as will a call to the school.

Dave Gerr
Director
Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology

---------

Success Stories

Westlawn Has a Remarkable Record Supplying
Talented Designers for the Marine Industry

Partial List (last updated 3/11/05)

Designers (Westlawn alumni*)

• Tom Fexas, Independent Designer
• Bruce King, Independent Designer
• Jack Hargrave, Independent Designer, Designer for Hatteras, Burger, others
• Gary Mull, Independent Designer
• Bill Cook, Independent Designer
• Bill Shaw, Independent Designer, Designer for Pearson
• Charlie Morgan, Independent Designer, President Morgan Yachts
• Rod Johnstone, Independent Designer, Founder & Designer J/Boats
• Dave Gerr, Independent Designer
• David P. Martin, Independent Designer, Designer for Ocean Yachts, Egg Harbor, Pacemaker, others
• Rodger Martin, Independent Designer, Chief Designer Derecktor Shipyards
• Britton Chance, Independent Designer
• Ted Brewer, Independent Designer
• Robert Harris, Independent Designer
• Lynn Senour, Independent Designer, Designer for Nordic Tugs, American Tugs, Delta Marine
• Dudley Dix, Independent Designer
• Stephen Pollard, Independent Designer
• David Beach, Independent Designer, Architect for NMMA
• Jay Coyle, Independent Designer, Technical Editor for Yachting Magazine
• Doug Zurn, Independent Designer
• John Cherubini, Independent Designer, Designer Founder Cherubini Yachts
• Bob Loeser, Head Of American Bureau Of Shipping Yacht Division
• Walter Altmann, Architect/Designer for Knight & Carver
• Richard McBride, Independent Designer
• Dave Napier, Designer, Bertram
• Fred Geiger, Designer, Trumpy
• Robert F. MacNeill, Independent Designer, Marine Consultant, Former President Carver Boats
• Walter G. Hahn, Designer, American Custom Yachts
• Gerry Douglas, President and Designer, Catalina Yachts
• Richard C. Lazzara, Designer, Lazzara Yachts, Gulfstar
• David Pugh, Designer, Maxum Yachts
• Livingston Brooks, Designer, Hatteras Yachts
• William C. Frank, Designer, Offshore Yacht Design
• Ken Hankinson, Independent Designer, Designer Glen-L Marine Designs
• Richard S. Brooke, Independent Designer, Surveyor for RINA
• Don Beeck, Designer, Burger Boat Company
• G.M. Bruce Livingston Jr., Director/Plant Manager, Grand Banks Yachts
• John “Chad” Chadwick, Designer, Jack Hargrave and Hargrave Custom Yachts
• Eric Henseval, Independent Designer, Architect for Van Peteghem-Lauriot-Prevost (MVP-VLP), Arradon Team
• Patrick J. Bray, Independent Designer
• Massimo Gregori, Independent Designer
• Luc St. Onge, Designer, Doral
• Bruce Roberts-Goodson, Independent Designer
• George Meese, Independent Designer
• D.A.J. (Dan) Parker, Designer & President, Monaro Marine Ltd.
• George Menezes, Designer, Sabre
• Daniel L. Chamberlain, Designer, Luhrs/Mainship, Engineer SP Systems
• Jack Hornor, Independent Designer & Marine Surveyor
• James Loeschen, Designer, Jack Hargrave and Hargrave Custom Yachts
• J. Henry Martinak, Independent Designer, Designer Café Yachts
• Thurber Whitey, Project Manager, Rybovich Spencer
• Stephen L. Davis, Marine Illustrator
• Peter Eikenberry, USCG Officer, Boating Safety
• Lysle Gray, USCG Civilian Supervisor Of Boating Safety, Former President American Boat & Yacht Council
• Nicholas DiMatteo, Designer, Tom Fexas Yacht Design
• John Kingdon, Designer, American Bureau Of Shipping
• Bob Basnight, Marine Artist, Designer, Newport News Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co., Norfolk Naval Shipyard
• Norman Nudelman, Independent Designer, Former President Westlawn
• Andrew Eaton, Designer, Bakewell-White Yacht Design
• James "Kimo" Worthington, Director Of Sailing Operations America3 Team
• David Fox, Designer, US Navy Combatant Craft
• John Swarbrick, Designer “Taskforce” Australian America’s Cup defense: “Kookaburra I, II & III”
• William A. Schumacher, Independent Designer
• Rodney Cull , 2nd Engineer, 375-ft Lurssen Motoryacht "Pelorus"
• James Backus, Independent Designer, Designer For Pearson, Robert Perry, Former President Westlawn
• Ivan Erdevicki, Independent Designer
• William Lynd, Designer, Sparkman & Stephens, American Bureau of Shipping
• Edwin E. Echols, Jr. , Chief Designer, Alan C. McClure Associates, Inc.
• Glyn Hutchinson, Captain 150-ft Palmer Johnson Motoryacht "Amorazur II"
• Don Blackman, Designer, Blackman Boats
• Kevin Dibley, Independent Designer
• Brad Wood, Designer, Craig Loomes Design Group Limited
• Dave Robertson, Independent Designer, President Gig Harbor Boatworks
• Harold Conway, Managing Member, C&S Boatworks LLC
• Wolfgang Schneider, Independent Designer, Designer Marine Concepts, Invader Boats, Silverline
• Bill Lind, Designer, Sparkman & Stephens
• Jerry Swartz, Designer, Island Packet Boats
• Rolf ven der Sleen, Designer, Grampian
• Mike Waller, Independent Designer
• Arch McTainsh, Designer, Nautic Marine

*Many Westlawn students have gone on to successful careers in the marine industry even without completing the entire Westlawn program.

Designers, Organizations & Professional Associations
(in addition to the above who have employed Westlawn alumni & students)

• Sparkman & Stephens
• Farr Yacht Design Ltd.
• Robert Perry
• C.W. "Chuck" Paine
• Pedrick Yacht Design, Inc.
• Tripp Design, Naval Architecture
• Riechel Pugh
• Glade Johnson Design, Inc.
• Paola D. Smith
• Jack W. Sarin Naval Architects
• Alan Andrews Yacht Design
• Alan C. McClure Associates, Inc.
• John W. Gilbert Associates, Inc.
• M. Rosenblatt & Son, Inc.
• MacLear & Harris, Inc.
• Kelsall Catamarans
• A. E. “Bill” Luders, Jr.
• Laurie Davidson
• Paul Bieker
• Francis & Francis
• Nigel Gee & Associates/BMT Group
• Studio Scanu
• Benford Design Group
• Glen-L Marine Designs
• Van Peteghem-Lauriot-Prevost (MVP-VLP)
• Craig Loomes Design Group Limited
• Arradon Team
• Glade Johnson
• Seltzer Design
• Bakewell-White Yacht Design
• Marine Concepts
• Sharp Design
• Michael Porter
• International Marine Enterprise
• North Sails
• Z Sails
• Southern Spars
• United States Coast Guard
• United States Navy
• Naval Sea Systems Command
• Boeing
• Jamestown-Yorktown Foundation
• SP Systems
• Berti and Lewis Replicas
• Union River Boat Company
• Aerospace at Sea-Level LTD
• American Bureau of Shipping
• American Boat & Yacht Council
• National Marine Manufacturers Association
• Panama Canal Commission
• RINA (Registro Italiano Navale)
• Boating Magazine
• Sail Magazine
• Yachting Magazine
• Offshore Magazine
• America’s Cup – 12M “Weatherly” Team
• America’s Cup – 12M “Defender” Team
• America’s Cup – 12M “Courageous” Team
• America’s Cup – 12M “American Eagle” Team
• America’s Cup – 12M “Taskforce” Team - “Kookaburra I, II & III,”
• America’s Cup – 12M “Nippon Challenge” Team
• America’s Cup – 12M “Challenge France” Team
• America’s Cup – 12M “Stars & Stripes” Team
• America’s Cup – 12M “USA” Team
• America’s Cup – 12M “America3” Team
• America’s Cup – “Young America” Team
• America’s Cup – “Team New Zealand”
• America’s Cup – “Team Alinghi”
• America’s Cup – “BMW Oracle Racing Team”

Boat Builders (who have employed Westlawn alumni and students)

• Admiral Marine Works
• Advanced Fiberglass Industries
• Allied Boat Company
• Amels
• American Custom Yachts
• American Tugs
• Avondale Shipyards
• Bayliner
• Bertram
• Blackman Boats
• Bluewater Yacht Builders Ltd
• BMC Design Ltd
• Bradford Marine Group, Inc.
• Bradley Boat
• Britton Boat and Canoe
• Broward
• Burger Boat Co.
• C&C Yachts
• C&S Boatworks, LLC
• Cabotcraft
• Cabo Yachts
• Café Yachts
• Cape Dory Yachts
• Cape Yachts
• Carver Boats
• Catalina Yachts
• Chantiers Navales de Biot
• Cheoy Lee Shipyard
• Cherubini Yachts
• Chris Craft
• Christensen Shipyards
• Cobalt Boats
• Columbia Yacht Corporation
• Conrad Industries
• Delta Marine
• Derecktor Shipyards
• DESCO Marine
• Dickson Marine
• Doral
• Douglas Marine Craft
• Driscoll Boat Works
• Dyna Craft
• Eagle Yachts
• Egg Harbor
• Elan
• Ericson Yachts
• Ferretti
• Fibercraft, Inc.
• F.lli Marchi Boatyard
• Fjord
• Fountain
• Four Winns
• General Dynamics/Electric Boat
• Godfrey Marine
• Gowen Marine
• Grampian
• Grand Banks
• Gulf Craft
• Gulfstar
• Halmatic
• Hans Christian Yachts
• Hargrave Custom Yachts
• Hatteras Yachts
• Henderson Yachts
• Hi Star
• Hinckley Yachts
• Hodgdon Yachts
• Huckins Yacht Corporation
• Hunter
• Hustler
• Intermarine Savannah
• Invader Boats
• Island Packet Yachts
• Islander Yachts
• J/Boats
• Jefferson Yachts
• Jersey Yachts
• Jongert
• JS Yachts
• Kanter Yachts
• Knight & Carver
• L’arte S.t.l.
• Lantana Boatyard
• Lazzara Yachts
• Luhrs/Mainship
• Mapso
• Marchi
• Mares
• Mariah Boats
• Marine Concepts
• Maxum Yachts
• Mickelson Yachts
• Mikazaki International
• Mochi Craft
• Monaro Marine Ltd.
• NASSCO (National Steel and Shipbuilding Co – General Dynamics)
• Nautaline
• Nautic Marine
• Navar Inc.
• Network Marine
• Newport News Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co.
• Nimble Boats
• Northwind Marine
• Nordhaven
• Nordic Tugs
• Norfolk Naval Shipyard
• North American Fiberglass Molding
• Ocean Sky Boatworks
• Ocean Yachts
• OMC
• P.A.E. Boatbuilders
• Pacemaker
• Pacific Seacraft
• Palmer Johnson
• Pan Oceanic Marine
• Pearson Yachts
• Prairie Boat Works, Inc.
• Pursuit Fishing Boats
• Ranger Yachts
• Riostar
• Robertson and Caine
• Royal Denship
• Rybovich Spencer
• S2 Yachts
• Sabre Yachts
• Santa Cruz Yachts
• Santana Yachts
• Seacraft Shipyard Corporation
• Seafarer Yachts
• Seaforth Marine Group
• Seaswirl
• Service Marine
• Shipbuilders Ltd.
• Silverline Boats
• Skipper
• Solcio
• Southern Spars
• Spectrum
• Sunwand Yachts
• Swiftships
• Tan Boat Ltd
• Tartan
• Tayana Yachts
• Tiara Yachts
• Todd Shipyards
• Tomco Marine Group, Inc.
• Tornado
• Trumpy
• Viking Yachts
• W.D. Schock Corp.
• Wellcraft
• Westerly Marine, Inc.
• Westport Shipyards
• Whitby Boatworks

[asathor]

I appreciate that you have contributed to the leaning of many fine designers Mr. Gerr.

However as an educator you are surely aware that our contribution as educators (yours included) is much like that of the boat builder - we can make a good boat design better but we can't make a bad design good.

This thread started with a fathers question about the suitability of your school for his son.

Please take a moment to answer the fathers original questions. For good measure I have added some of my own:

• Are you able to provide the individualized counseling, coaching and attention that a somewhat "immature" student require.
• Do your instructors have the time to spend with students when they get frustrated or lack motivation because that "can't see the end".
• Do you offer support and coaching when the preparation the had does not measure up to what is required for your cousework.

One thing is to provide the "best and the brightest" with the tools they need to do what they are going to do anyway, another is to have the capability of turning a diamond-in-rough in to a valuable beautiful stone.

I am not belittleling your expertice, just redirecting this back to the original topic.

[dgerr]

asathor:

To answer these questions, I refer you and everyone to the Westlawn website (http://www.westlawn.org/), which extensively details the operation and curriculum of the school. There is a vast amount information available easily and immediately about all aspects of Westlawn: history, operation, faculty, current news, accreditation, continuing-education courses, and more. This information is far more extensive and better organized than any answer I could post here.

It should be evident--with Westlawn’s extensive track record of highly successful alumni--that Westlawn provides the extensive interactive support and assistance needed by our students. Again, more on the Westlawn website.

Selecting any school is a deeply personal decision. My strong suggestion is that those considering Westlawn study the Westlawn website and then call the school if they have further questions.

Dave Gerr
Director
Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology