Trouble in paradise - Gabriola Island BC

[CatBuilder]

I have a MS in Physics with a minor in Computer Science. I went to a well known school in the Northeast, USA that enabled me to do an internship for, then work at NASA right from school. There are no departments that kick 47% or 80% of their students out. You guys are telling the story like old men saying you used to walk up hill both ways to school in the winter.

If there were a department that kicked out 50% or more of its students, that department would be closed by the school.

Can there be any more BS on this board? Jeez.

I had 200 people in my freshman Physics class. Those people were wannabes, engineering students and physics students. There were 8 of us from my department at the graduation ceremony. This does not meant the school weeded anyone out. They all weeded themselves out, since the workload was intense.

Attrition rates are due to the student failing, or deciding the work is too hard in most cases. The student ends up failing out of school or transferring to engineering or business or something like that. They have nothing to do with the department or faculty kicking out a large percentage of the students over grades. Total BS.

If a department was failing 50% or more of its students, it would be the department's fault and it would be under serious scrutiny by the university. That's an inability to teach.

Take a look at this boat building school, OP. Went there this summer while I was on vacation and it was very busy with lots of completed projects, as well as ones being worked on when I looked in on them:

http://www.thewoodenboatschool.com/

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by PAR

I disagree in that there are "plenty" of inept . . .

Getting an education is up to the student. The instructor can't beat it into you. You have to want it, fight for it, grab it, by God take from them, suck them dry if you have to. You paying for the opportunity and the privilege, not a wet nurse job, ...... they can just plug a thumb drive to your ass and you'll suddenly become a Naval Architect, but I hope not.

If you could suddenly stick a probe in an appropriate place, and pass on the knowledge - why wouldnt you ?? What makes the "know how" some sort of holy order ? Do you want to bring back the old medieval secret guilds and strange handshakes ?

Why do you think you have to 'beat' the knowledge into anyone ? Its a common desire of professionals to make new students suffer - from Medicine to Spray Painters to Metal workers. Its the old 'bully' process, the dominant individuals desire to 'put down the competitor'.

Sure, it makes a point of ensuring that only the most determined survive, but it destroys the confidence and enthusiasm of countless other less dynamic individuals, and means we have to have thousands of quite competent people who have to drive taxis and pour coffee who could be doing something really useful.

And don't you worry - there are p l e n t y of experts who know what they are doing as a qualified professionals, but cant teach for peanuts. Its a totally different concept from knowing the stuff, to teaching the stuff.

You may get an experienced person who knows a lot about how its done, who decides to take an 'easier' career path and becomes a teacher - it doesnt work in 60% of cases, because they know %&%&* sweet fa about teaching.

Don't confuse professional expertise with an ability to impart it.

Personally, without knowing the details of this particular case, I would be asking for the teaching credentials of the principals of the boat yard, besides any trade credentials.

[DavidJ]

I've known two graduates of the program in Gabriola fairly well. Both of them were employed in the industry and were working at boatyards specializing in wooden boats. So that is a positive. However, both of them had very similar complaints about the program. They also felt the tuition didn't justify the learning and like it said on the blog they felt there was too little instruction and it was disorganized. It's sad to hear that they haven't been listening to the students complaints. One of the two I know did the same type of formal complaints the OP is doing now.

Both of the guys I knew were young and had gone into the program to learn trade skills. What they found was the school was more oriented towards older people doing it as a retirement hobby. They didn't feel they came out of the program with solid employable skills.

Now I did say both found jobs, but that point alone doens't tell the whole story. For one thing this was back pre-recession (or whatever the PC term is for what happened in 2008) and times were booming. The one guy was basically just doing the kind of entry level work any shmo off the street could get. Scraping boat bottoms, sanding bright work, and stuff like that. The other guy did get a job where he was doing the more interesting repairs and rebuilds but he was already a skilled carpenter and cabinet maker BEFORE he even attended the school.

[TeddyDiver]

There's no excuse for doing sloppy job.. no matter is it a student or a teacher. The difference lies in the fact that the student will harm only himself..

[Submarine Tom]

Originally Posted by Submarine Tom

Thane as in the Sailing Vessel THANE out of Victoria?

-Tom

Looks like the OP disappeared from this thread too...

-Tom

[pistnbroke]

for Catbuilder ....Many of the funding ideas in use at present pay extra dividend to the university to get students onto the course ie first year ..this is so governments can say nunbers going to university doubled in 20?? Second year no such bonus so numbers are cut to fit the funding and facilities ....not a nice way to play with peoples lives...

sounds like there is a prblem at this school ..dont want people who "want to build a boat" mixed in with people looking for life long skills.....at those fees I think I would just start building !!!

[welder/fitter]

I've been told by a couple of people that the school in question isn't what it once was. If this is the case, it's a real shame, because there aren't a lot of schools around and, even if some view wood boats as "dead vegetation", there's nothing prettier than a wooden boat. Metal & 'glass boats just don't have the character of wood, imo. I have varnished wood combings on my boat & they're the only part of the exterior that catches my & other peoples' eyes. Mind you, I'd like to see a local school that teaches in all mediums.

[m3mm0s rib]

By what criteria you say that teaching was not complete;

[michael pierzga]

Originally Posted by welder/fitter

I've been told by a couple of people that the school in question isn't what it once was. If this is the case, it's a real shame, because there aren't a lot of schools around and, even if some view wood boats as "dead vegetation", there's nothing prettier than a wooden boat. Metal & 'glass boats just don't have the character of wood, imo. I have varnished wood combings on my boat & they're the only part of the exterior that catches my & other peoples' eyes. Mind you, I'd like to see a local school that teaches in all mediums.

The beauty of a student learning how wooden boats are constructed is that it familiarizes them with every component and structure in a hull and allows them to visualized their load and function. . With a glass hull the loads are all still present but difficult to understand and nearly impossible to visually inspect to learn how the designer oriented the fiber to accomplish the task.

[sonofagun]

Originally Posted by Submarine Tom

Looks like the OP disappeared from this thread too...

-Tom

As the original poster, thank you for this discussion forum. Your comments are all welcome.

There is no connection between the vessel Thane of Victoria BC and myself. It is my given name some 53 years ago.

[Boat Design Net Moderator]

Originally Posted by sonofagun

As the original poster, thank you for this discussion forum. Your comments are all welcome.

There is no connection between the vessel Thane of Victoria BC and myself. It is my given name some 53 years ago.

Thane, it appears you have created two forum accounts; would you prefer Thane be merged into the newer sonofagun username, or should sonofagun be merged into the Thane username?

[sonofagun]

As the original poster username of my only thread contribution is "sonofagun" I would prefer that be the winning name with my personal handle being rolled into it.

Sorry for any confusion this has caused. I am grateful for your assistance.
Thane Campbell
Gabriola BC

[HReeve]

I had occasion to use the Silva Bay Shipyard this summer, and in my opinion, the current operators of that part of Silva Bay Marina are top notch.

I didn't see any activity at the school.

If the operators of the various parts of Silva Bay Marina can get their stuff in order, and the Navigation Waters Officer can clear some of the ugly junk out of the Bay, then maybe Silva Bay can return to being a truly desirable destination!

[Petros]

I guess it did not occur to any of these students to investigate all of this before they paid some $16,000 or more for instruction. It seems to me that they could have learned of these short comings simply by asking for a course syllabus, instructor qualifications, etc. before they enrolled. What do they expect? That some other agency is going to look after their best interested AFTER they pay their money and enroll in a private school? It appears they depended only on the schools advertising to determine if they should attend. I bet they are also wondering where all the pretty girls are that never show up when they buy the right kind of toothpaste, deodorant or shampoo. After all that is the promise of advertising too.

sounds like a bunch of whiners. IT is unfortunate they paid so much for so little, but the responsibility to get quality instruction rests on their shoulders, not anyone else.

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Petros

I guess it did not occur to any of these students to investigate all of this before they paid some $16,000 or more for instruction. It seems to me that they could have learned of these short comings simply by asking for a course syllabus, instructor qualifications, etc. before they enrolled. What do they expect? That some other agency is going to look after their best interested AFTER they pay their money and enroll in a private school? It appears they depended only on the schools advertising to determine if they should attend. I bet they are also wondering where all the pretty girls are that never show up when they buy the right kind of toothpaste, deodorant or shampoo. After all that is the promise of advertising too.

sounds like a bunch of whiners. IT is unfortunate they paid so much for so little, but the responsibility to get quality instruction rests on their shoulders, not anyone else.

I don't know the particulars of this particular case. We haven't had much detail from the students, and we've heard nothing from the school. But I've never agreed with the idea that if someone gets screwed, it's prima facie proof that he deserves it for being stupid.

A school also has a responsibility to hold up its end of the bargain, if it's going to take someone's money. It should provide competent instructors, proper facilities and tools, and an atmosphere conducive to learning.

Laying out a syllabus, curriculum and goals for prospective students is hardly the same as sticking pretty girls in a toothpaste commercial.