Boat Design Forums

Boat Design Forums (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/)
-   Education (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/education/)
-   -   Naval Architecture Lite (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/education/naval-architecture-lite-45877.html)

Ad Hoc 01-12-2013 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCockey (Post 607335)
The Lloyd's Academy Naval Architecture Certificate program is only 14 weeks in duration and appears to me to be aimed at individuals working in the maritime industry who need or want to have a better understanding of what naval architecture is and what naval architects do.

That’s how I see it too; it doesn’t claim to be anything else either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCockey (Post 607335)
The choice to call the certificate awarded on completion a "Certificate in Naval Architecture" is unfortunate because someone not familar with the program might assume the certificate implies competence in naval architecture, not some level of general familarity.

I disagree. Perhaps that’s where a difference in British English and US English in definitions does not translate.

A certificate in the UK means just that, nothing else; it is just a document. Anything else is in the mind/delusion of the person seeing “certificate = degree= competence”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCockey (Post 607335)
Based on what I've seen of the Westlawn course material I would not consider it to be equivalent to a univeristy degree program in naval architecture.

I also concur.

Alik 01-12-2013 09:35 PM

Actually, I have already met some individuals with certificates from Lloyd's Marine Academy in Small Craft Survey, claiming they are 'Lloyds Surveyors'. Their Customer is usually not savvy enough to detect what this 'Lloyd's Surveyor' means. I believe we will see 'Lloyds Naval Architects' soon, claiming to be something in the industry.

As to Westlawn, the biggest problem that they overclaim the possibilities of their 'graduates'. It is a 'sorcery' course of boat design/drafting, nothing to do with engineering or naval architecture.

FMS 01-12-2013 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alik (Post 607351)
As to Westlawn, the biggest problem that they overclaim the possibilities of their 'graduates'. It is a 'sorcery' course of boat design/drafting, nothing to do with engineering or naval architecture.

Specify where they have overclaimed the possibilities for their graduates. Westlawn has never promoted their course for students who want to design oil platforms or commercial bulk carriers. Their website begins:
Quote:

The mission of the Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology is threefold: First, to provide our students with the skills and knowledge required to build a rewarding career in the profession of yacht and small-craft design; second, to support continued growth of the recreational and small-craft marine community through the development of well-trained designers; and third, to provide continuing education to marine professionals from surveyors to marine-industry executives.
Their FAQ states
Quote:

Q. Does Westlawn grant a degree?

A. Westlawn grants a professional diploma to all graduates of the four-module Yacht & Boat Design Program. A certificate of completion is awarded to graduates of the Elements of Technical Boat Design course. Degrees are not awarded, as the course concentration is specific to yacht and small-craft design and does not include courses in the humanities, arts, or general education.

Alik 01-12-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMS (Post 607352)
Specify where they have overclaimed the possibilities for their graduates. Westlawn has never promoted their course for students who want to design oil platforms or commercial bulk carriers. Their website begins:

I do not mean oil rigs or bulkers, but they also claim alumni can design any small craft http://www.westlawn.edu/who/faq.asp. I would like to see how they can design small high speed commercial craft without knowledge of basics of hull resistance or structural engineering.

FMS 01-12-2013 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alik (Post 607354)
I do not mean oil rigs or bulkers, but they also claim alumni can design any small craft http://www.westlawn.edu/who/faq.asp. I would like to see how they can design small high speed commercial craft without knowledge of basics of hull resistance or structural engineering.

Specify where exactly Westlawn states their alumni can design "any small craft."

The reference I find searching the link for "small craft" states the following.
Quote:

Q. Is a Westlawn graduate a yacht or small-craft designer or a naval architect?

A. In many states you would be known as either. Some states have laws requiring that you have a professional engineering license to be called a naval architect. As Westlawn graduates usually are employed within the boating or small-craft industry, they are known as yacht designers, boat designers, or small-craft designers. While naval architect generally implies large vessels, yacht designer or small-craft designer is more appropriate in describing the usual work of the Westlawn graduate. (Small craft are vessels under 200 feet or 60 meters).
Alumni who have gone though the westlawn program have been successful designing small craft.
Quote:

Designers (Westlawn alumni*)

Partial List (last updated 4/14/12)

• Tom Fexas, Independent Designer

• Bruce King, Independent Designer

• Jack Hargrave, Independent Designer, Designer for Hatteras, Burger, others

• Gary Mull, Independent Designer

• Bill Cook, Independent Designer

• Bill Shaw, Designer for Pearson, Designer at Sparkman & Stephens, Chief Designer for 12M Columbia

• Charlie Morgan, Independent Designer, President Morgan Yachts

• Rod Johnstone, Independent Designer, Founder & Designer J/Boats

• Andrej Justin, Independent Designer, Coutts Justin Design

• Royal Lowell, Independent Designer, Designer for Jarvis Newman, Bruno Stillman, others

• Dave Gerr, Independent Designer

• David P. Martin, Independent Designer, Designer for Ocean Yachts, Egg Harbor, Pacemaker, others

• Rodger Martin, Independent Designer, Chief Designer Derecktor Shipyards

• John S. Hall, Design Coordinator, Huckins Yacht Corporation

• Britton Chance, Independent Designer

• Ted Brewer, Independent Designer

• Geoffrey van Aller, Chief Designer, Trinity Yachts

• Walter Greene, Independent Designer and Builder

• E. E. Ewbank, Independent Designer

• Robert Harris, Independent Designer, Designer for Jeanneau, others

• Guy Ribadeau Dumas, Independent Designer

• Dieter Blank, Independent Designer

• Eric A. Ogden, Independent Designer, Marine Surveyor

• Lynn Senour, Independent Designer, Designer for Nordic Tugs, American Tugs, Delta Marine

• Dudley Dix, Independent Designer

• Glenn Henderson, Director of Engineering, Hunter Marine Corporation

• Stephen Pollard, Independent Designer

• David Beach, Independent Designer, Architect for NMMA

• Jay Coyle, Independent Designer, Technical Editor for Yachting Magazine

• Doug Zurn, Independent Designer

• Bob (Robert L.) Watkins, Chief Naval Architect at Derecktor Shipyard

• John Cherubini, Independent Designer, Designer Founder Cherubini Yachts

• Bob Loeser, Head Of American Bureau Of Shipping Yacht Division

• Walter Altmann, Architect/Designer for Knight & Carver

• Richard McBride, Independent Designer

• Dave Napier, Designer, Bertram

• Fred Geiger, Designer, Trumpy

• Robert F. MacNeill, Independent Designer, Marine Consultant, Former President Carver Boats

• Walter G. Hahn, Designer, American Custom Yachts

• Gerry Douglas, President and Designer, Catalina Yachts

• Richard C. Lazzara, Designer, Lazzara Yachts, Gulfstar

• David Pugh, VP Engineering, Glacier Bay Catamarans, Designer Maxum Yachts

• Livingston Brooks, Designer, Hatteras Yachts

• Michael E. Hartline, Head of Design & Engineering, Cabo Yachts, Engineering Supervisor, Ocean Yachts

• William C. Frank, Designer, Offshore Yacht Design

• Ken Hankinson, Hankinson Associates, Designer Glen-L Marine Designs

• Richard S. Brooke, Independent Designer, Surveyor for RINA

• Don Beeck, Designer, Burger Boat Company

• G.M. Bruce Livingston Jr., Director/Plant Manager, Grand Banks Yachts

• Don Flippen, Vice President Engineering, Egg Harbor Yacht Company

• John “Chad” Chadwick, Designer, Jack Hargrave and Hargrave Custom Yachts

• Eric Henseval, Independent Designer, Architect for Van Peteghem-Lauriot-Prevost (MVP-VLP), Arradon Team

• Patrick J. Bray, Independent Designer

• John Van Hoboken, Vice-President of Research, Chris-Craft

• Massimo Gregori, Independent Designer

• Luc St. Onge, Designer, Doral

• Andrew R. Setzer, Independent Designer

• Bruce Roberts-Goodson, Independent Designer

• Otto Ranchi, Independent Designer

• George Meese, Independent Designer

• D.A.J. (Dan) Parker, Designer & President, Monaro Marine Ltd.

• George Menezes, Designer, Sabre

• Daniel L. Chamberlain, Designer, Luhrs/Mainship, Engineer SP Systems/Gurit

• Jack Hornor, Independent Designer & Marine Surveyor

• James Loeschen, Designer, Jack Hargrave and Hargrave Custom Yachts

• J. Henry Martinak, Independent Designer, Designer Cafι Yachts

• Thurber Whitey, Project Manager, Rybovich Spencer

• Stephen L. Davis, Marine Illustrator

• Peter Eikenberry, USCG Officer, Boating Safety

• Lysle Gray, USCG Civilian Supervisor Of Boating Safety, Former President American Boat & Yacht Council

• Nicholas DiMatteo, Designer, Tom Fexas Yacht Design

• John Kingdon, Designer, American Bureau Of Shipping

• Bob Basnight, Marine Artist, Designer, Newport News Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Co., Norfolk Naval Shipyard

• Norman Nudelman, Independent Designer, Former President Westlawn

• Andrew Eaton, Designer, Bakewell-White Yacht Design

• James "Kimo" Worthington, Director Of Sailing Operations America3 Team, Shore Manager, Disney’s “Black Pearl” Volvo Ocean Race Team

• David Fox, Designer, US Navy Combatant Craft

• John Swarbrick, Designer “Taskforce” Australian America’s Cup defense: “Kookaburra I, II & III”

• William A. Schumacher, Independent Designer

• Rodney Cull, 2nd Engineer, 375-ft Lurssen Motoryacht "Pelorus"

• Jim Kyle, Head of R&D/Production, Bowmar Marine

• James Backus, Independent Designer, Designer For Pearson, Robert Perry, Former President Westlawn

• Ivan Erdevicki, Independent Designer, Designer for Bertram

• Karl Junghans, Independent Designer, Designer for Crhis Craft, Broward, Rybovich

• Edwin E. Echols, Jr., Chief Designer, Alan C. McClure Associates, Inc.

• Glyn Hutchinson, Captain 150-ft Palmer Johnson Motoryacht "Amorazur II"

• Don Blackman, Designer, Blackman Boats

• Kevin Dibley, Independent Designer

• Brad Wood, Designer, Craig Loomes Design Group Limited

• Dave Robertson, Independent Designer, President Gig Harbor Boatworks

• Harold Conway, Managing Member, C&S Boatworks LLC

• Wolfgang Schneider, Independent Designer, Designer Marine Concepts, Invader Boats, Silverline

• J. “Jopie” Helsen, President, Sailor’s Wharf Yacht Yard

• Cortland Steck, Independent Designer, Designer Manta Catamarans, Hunter Marine

• Francois Chevalier, Professor of Naval Architecture, University of Nantes, Marine Author, Marine Artist

• William J. Lind, Former Senior Designer, Sparkman & Stephens, Director of Engineering, Americas Division of American Bureau of Shipping

• David B. Wyman, Naval Architect, Ocean Engineer, Marine Surveyor

• Jerry Swartz, Designer, Island Packet Boats

• Rolf ven der Sleen, Designer, Grampian

• Glen L. Witt, Designer, Glen-L Marine Designs

• Mike Waller, Independent Designer

• Arch McTainsh, Designer, Nautic Marine

DCockey 01-12-2013 10:04 PM

From the Oxford Dictionaries website:
Definition of certificate

noun

Pronunciation: /səˈtɪfɪkət/

1. an official document attesting a fact, in particular:
  • a document recording a person’s birth, marriage, or death: a birth certificate
  • a document confirming that someone has reached a certain level of achievement in a course of study or training: a university-accredited certificate
  • a document attesting ownership of an item or the fulfilment of legal requirements: a share certificate
.......
Bold emphasis added. The definitions for "British & World English" and "US English" are identical. http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...?q=certificate

Alik 01-12-2013 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMS (Post 607357)
Specify where exactly Westlawn states their alumni can design "any small craft."

Search posts of Dave Gerr in this forum. It is often said.
http://www.westlawn.edu/news/Yachting2011.pdf
'Westlawn serves both those interested in yacht design and those who want to focus on commercial smallcraft design'

Quote:

Alumni who have gone though the westlawn program have been successful designing small craft.
And what? I studied there as well (but did not complete) and know the level they give. There is not a single naval architect with appropriate degree involved in teaching there, so is not relevant to mention this course as something related to naval architecture.

FMS 01-12-2013 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alik (Post 607361)
Quote: Alik
but they also claim alumni can design any small craft

Quote: FMS
Specify where exactly Westlawn states their alumni can design "any small craft."

Quote: Alik
Search posts of Dave Gerr in this forum. It is often said.
Quote: Alumni who have gone though the westlawn program have been successful designing small craft..

There is a clear distinction between these quotes.

The list of alumni proves that "alumni who have gone through the westlawn program have been successful designing small craft."

This doesn't claim that the westlawn correspondence course has the same breadth as full-time 4- to 6-year naval architecture program.

Alik 01-12-2013 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMS (Post 607367)
The list of alumni proves that "alumni who have gone through the westlawn program have been successful designing small craft."

See my post above.

Ad Hoc 01-12-2013 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCockey (Post 607359)
The definitions for "British & World English" and "US English" are identical. http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...?q=certificate

Then it must be your own usage of the word to consider it "unfortunate". As I see it as entirely appropriate.

boradicus 06-08-2013 03:12 AM

Free Online Video Course Lectures In Ocean Engineering & Naval Architecture
 
This is an online course that I found that is from India. The lectures are in English, look at each syllabus to see if a text book is listed to follow along with. So far, I have found these courses quite helpful. I am currently on lecture 5 of Hydrostatics and Stability. I need to catch up on some of the math, but the Mathematics course requirement is listed in the section for the basic courses. It is a bit hard to understand because I can't see the handwriting that well when the Mathematics professor is lecturing, and it goes fast, but I believe I am slowly catching on. At least I am getting the outline of what I need to know in my notes and can look things up in more detail from other resources if I find it necessary. Best of luck to you.

tomas 06-08-2013 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boradicus (Post 633457)

Interesting content and over 12,000 technical videos on their youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/nptelhrd/videos

Thanks.

As an aside, it's always amusing to turn on the CC which displays Google's automated speech-to-text captioning as the video plays. The errors are often funny. For example, the lecturer states " we have a mid semester" which somehow translates to "Charlie Sinister" and "everglades silly stuff".

boradicus 06-08-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomas (Post 633496)
Interesting content and over 12,000 technical videos on their youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/nptelhrd/videos

Thanks.

As an aside, it's always amusing to turn on the CC which displays Google's automated speech-to-text captioning as the video plays. The errors are often funny. For example, the lecturer states " we have a mid semester" which somehow translates to "Charlie Sinister" and "everglades silly stuff".

I think what they are doing there is phenomenal, and it is actually better in many respects than MIT's Open Courseware :). The biggest difficulty I have is being able to see the handwriting clearly in all instances, but so far that is idiosyncratic to one professor's writing.

Not all of the Ocean Engineering section is online yet, apparently, but I am looking forward to seeing their ship design section once they have completed filming the lectures.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:51 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Web Site Design and Content Copyright ©1999 - 2014 Boat Design Net