Hello & Westlawn vs YDS

[Mark Robinson]

Dear All,

Hi everyone !

I stumbled across this site whilst looking for a yacht design course. It's very reassuring to know that a lot of you have had the same quandary regarding YDS vs Westlawn.

It sounds as though some of you have been on the courses for a while now. I would very much like to hear if any of your opinions have changed now that you are "further down the road".

I am having difficulty deciding between the two, although I think I am leaning towards YDS.

The cost is significant to me and as I have no drafting experience I am a little concerned that I will struggle in the course without purchasing all of the expensive drafting tools that YDS suggest. Can anyone reassure me or otherwise ?

Regards,

Mark

[Willallison]

I'm part way thru my 2nd year with Westlawn. I'm really enjoying it - but would have to say that some of the text material is a little dated (on the other hand, the fundamentals remaon the same as they alway have, and I thinkl they are currently trying to update the texts.)

Spoke to a guy the other day who has done YDS and has enrolled in Westlawn - "just for the fun of it". Obviously has more money than me!!
He said that there is heaps of equipment listed as 'essential' for the course which you simply don't need - or which can be sourced elsewhere for much less. Don't get suckered into buying a whole heap of stuff that you don't need - particularly if you plan on using CAD for your design work eventually.
Get yourself a large flat work surface and a Parrallel rule, a few curves to get started and then build on the gear that you have as you need it. As I said, I'm into my 2nd year with Westlawn. I only have that stuff plus a borrowed planimeter, 1 spline and a few 'ducks' (both of which you can easily make yourself). I do all my drafting manually and am yet to find myself short.

Oh - and welcome to the boards!

[Mark Robinson]

Hi Willallison,

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the advice.

Following discussions with the school I have now enrolled with YDS and am awaiting the first lesson(s).

Could you let me have details of how and from what you constructed your spline and "ducks" ?

Also, which CAD program do you use. Do Westlawn recommend any in particluar ? YDS seem to favour Rhino. Does anyone have any comments re their experience with Rhino as an aid to their drawing ?

Regards,

Mark

I started Westlawn a couple of months ago and so far all is going well. With regard to equipment, I started shopping a few months in advance of the class and puchased the bigger ticket items (board, rule and planimeter) for less than 1/4 of the price of new. I have also been sucessful in picking up many of the classic refference text to supplement my reading. Shopped around locally as well as WEB sources and purchased many of the other supplies for a little cheaper. Good luck in making your decision.

[Willallison]

Do Westlawn recommend any in particluar ?

Not specifically, but a demo version of Prosurf is included as part of the year 1 text. My advice as far as CAD goes is don't rush out and buy anything - you can download demo versions of all the better known programs and play around with them to find which one you like the best. I'm not sure how the YDS course is structured, but with Westlawn you can complete the entire course using manual drafting (I'm 1/2 way thru 2nd year and am still doing everything manually), so there's no rush.

Could you let me have details of how and from what you constructed your spline and "ducks" ?

I was lucky in that I was able to borrow splines, ducks and a planimeter. But people use almost anything - pieces of plastic cut into strips etc etc. Suggest you take a bit of a look through past threads on this board - there's a number of threads discussing how to make them.

[Mark Robinson]

Hi Will and Guest,

Following your advice I have purchased the bare minimum of drafting tools (missed out on a planimeter on e-bay!), and looking at the first few lessons it looks like I'm going to get away with it.

I just need to brush up my maths re lack of planimeter.

I have a couple of triangles and a few curves along with pencils etc.

Can anyone recommend the best type of rubber to use on mylar drafting film ?

For the benefit of newcomers to YDS I'll keep you updated re my progress.

I have no previous drafting experince and have yet to put pencil to film, but I'm looking forward to it. It will be interesting to look back in a few months at my first efforts ! But I guess we all have to start somewhere.

Regards,

Mark

[Zaynab]

Mark,
You've been enrolled in YDS for half a year now. I'd be very interested in getting an update.

Michiel

[Jim]

Mark,

Me too!

I Just sent in my 2nd lesson and ordered my 3rd. Spoke directly with Tom.

Got Westlawn catalogue prior to YDS and chose YDS. Feels OK so far.

I built my drawing table with a skillsaw, bought a mechanical drafting arm, planimeter, and some books on ebay, works ok. 109 curve, triangles came from YDS. Have yet to use the triangles. What I need are more templates for toilets, circles, doors and such. Now I am looking for some ships curves.

I bought one spline weight and cast it in plaster of paris. Bought some lead at a local scrap metal place and melted it in a pan outside on a propane turkey cooker and poured it with an old 5 inch iron skillet. I drilled holes and used threaded rod for the spline holder. These work fine but I still need to dip them in Dip It or something to keep the lead from marking my mylar when I set the splines.

How's your course going? Mine is slow but I already see great leaps forward in comprehension and skills.

Jim

[SailDesign]

Jim,

You say "These work fine but I still need to dip them in Dip It or something to keep the lead from marking my mylar when I set the splines. "

Just buy some stick-on green felt pads and stick them on the bottom. ;-)

Steve

[Jim]

Hello SailDesign,

Good idea! I think I'll still DipIt them though, so they will look all rubbery and have color, kind of like coated dive weights.

Thanks, Jim

I have been reading the threads about both YDS and Westlawn and thought I would put my 2 cents worth in!
I have been with YDS for about a year, and though I enjoy the course very much and like the flexibility of it, I do have a problem with the speed with which they mark and return correspondence and assignments. It completely destroys your motivation when you wait month on end for work to be returned and for new work to be supplied, and I think that it is certainly worth keeping in mind that it isn't particularly efficient in this department. Often it is hard enough to manage taking on a new project such as studying on top of normal work, family and other obligations, and though I have too much invested time wise and money wise in this school to consider changing, I am not sure I would recommend them to prospective students. Of coures, I will keep going to the end, despite being discouraged by this aspect of the education!!! If I was starting a fresh, I would opt for the Landing School and spend the extra money and take the time out of work. I think the time with the tutors and having other students around is worth the extra money, as well as fast tracking through a program so you can actually put it to use instead of doing the balancing act!!

[edneu]

I have been with Westlawn for about a year a half. They generally turn the assignments around in about a week or so from mail out to mail back, they generally respond to email within a day and the reponses are very complete. The lesson reports, grading, and design reviews are very good.

I think Westlawn is going through some positive changes with ABYC and Dave Gerr. Some of the new materials have been very helpful.

[Scuttlebutt]

Mark, I make lofting ducks as a hobby (spline weights) and would make drafting weights with some advice on what would be ideal. Do you or anyone reading this post have any ideas on what attributes would be good? Thanks,Pete

Originally Posted by Scuttlebutt

Mark, I make lofting ducks as a hobby (spline weights) and would make drafting weights with some advice on what would be ideal. Do you or anyone reading this post have any ideas on what attributes would be good? Thanks,Pete

if your just looking to hold the corners of the drawings down, leather bags filled with lead shot are pretty good.

does anyone know ideas that i can make the perfect boat for a project using plaster of paris? Its some dumb project for a class and we have to make boats using that. They have to be able to hold like 400 grams of mass as well.