Hardcore sailing courses - not design

[Ferdous]

This may be off topic but here goes, hoping for the best anyway:

Can anyone recommend a sailing school that REALLY teaches sailing skills? Most of the programs I've seen (and the couple I attended) were more like mini-vacations for yuppies.

I know, I know - experience is the best teacher. Yes, got that already. But aside from that.

[Crag Cay]

What aspect of 'hardcore sailing' do you want to learn?

What places have you been to already?

[Ferdous]

I've taken the full standard ASA course thru 108.
What aspects? Everything. Anything. I'm mainly interested in as close to real life experience with emergencies/tough situations as possible and not just theoretical/simulations.

For example, the ASA courses do the standard MOB drills. Great. Wonderful. Try doing it in a gale with high waves at night. Try actually pulling up a real person out of the water - who is unconscious/incapacited by cold, and has drenched, heavy clothes - instead of a life jacket that you can just pluck up out of the warm Caribbean waters on a pleasant, sunny day with a cheap boat hook.

How about hoving to in a big storm, a hull holing, blowing a sail, dismasting & jury rigging, running aground, losing a rudder, going aloft, ditching & deploying a life raft after capsizing...

At best, the standard courses show you some diagrams and throw in a couple of platitudes about dealing with these situations. Nice.

[Crag Cay]

I can only really give you a perspective of what is available in the UK, and we're only 8 hours away (even if your dollars are hardly worth the paper their printed on these days). But here all the sailing schools are focussed on the programs run by the RYA. For yachts this means the various levels leading to Yachtmaster Ocean Professional.

The Yachtmaster 'Offshore' Practical courses would cover everything you are looking for but, the weather and the individual course student's needs, can mean the actual content varyis enormously. You would have to be very clear with your expectations and get a binding commitment as to the 'rigour' of any course you might be offered.

A few years ago I would have recommended doing one of Chay Blyth's 'training courses' for his potential round the world adventurers. Basically they would beat into the teeth of a winter gale in the Western Approaches until he was happy 'that moral had improved'. However since the demise of his Challenge Business, various people and organisations have bought his 67 and 72 foot boats and these could well end up with people ofering the same sort of deal. They are going to have to do something with them as they are hardly suitable for the G&T cruises. If you search on 'ex-challenge yachts' you might turn up something.

One organisation that does have a couple is the UK Sailing Academy (www.uksa.org). They offer two courses that may be of interest. One is the 'mile builder' and the other the 'Yachtmaster Practical' that we have already discussed. Even if you were not pre qualified for the latter, they are often looking for 'crew' during these exams, especially for the courses running from September to March, when the chance of getting bad weather here is fairly good (although not guarenteed - we do get winter anti cyclones). You may be able to combine one of these courses with one of their sea survival modules to get the life raft training you were after.

The other source of information I can think of is to write to Tom Cunliffe who is a very senior Yachtmaster Examiner (www.tomcunliffe.com). He will have a better idea than I these days, who is offering 'robust' training courses.

[Ferdous]

Yeah I was considering the RYA as the ASA seems to be somewhat inadequate. In fact I was checking out an extended program is S Africa - supposing that the weather and waters there should at least provide a greater challenge than the local bathtub of the Gulf of Mexico

[Crag Cay]

In fact I was checking out an extended program is S Africa -

Well pick your course with care. Just bcause these fast track places use words like 'industry standard' and 'professional' doesn't alter the fact that they are basically getting kids trained for running the nautical equivalent of Bed & Breakfast cottages.

[JPC]

I'd recommend getting on as crew for some ocean races and/or deliveries as superior to classes. If that's not convenient, some of the quasi-charter sails like those on Alaska Eagle (Orange Coast College) or Skip Novak's Pelagic voyages would probably be more to the point than a 'course of instruction'

[sailaweigh]

Hi Ferdous,
I think I’ve got the place for you. A friend and I run a school (sort of) on the Isla de los Estados. (Argentine island that lies on the Le Maire Strait off the eastern extremity of the Argentine portion of Tierra del Fuego, 55 degrees south latitude) It is located in the old prison there, which had to be moved to the mainland due to the ferocious winds. Our offices are in the old lighthouse known as “Faro del fin del mundo” ("Lighthouse at the end of the world").
Our specialty is training in “survival at sea” in the worst of all possible conditions, and believe me we are in the right spot for it! We live by the old sailor’s maxim “below 40 degrees there is no Law - below 50 degrees there is no God”. MOB drills at night in a gale? Hah! Try 30’ waves in freezing temperatures. (and that’s in the summer) Only problem is, to make it “real”, someone has to be the “MOB”. We draw straws, and the “winner” does get a beacon and survival suit. Only lost one so far – poor devil kept banging his head against the hull as we tried to pull him up. Oh, I forgot to mention that one crew has to go aloft during the MOB drill to keep a good lookout for the poor soul, so you’ll be happy to know we have that covered. (hard to see over those 30’ waves from on deck!) We tried the “hoving to in a big storm drill” a few times, but the big storms last for weeks, and it gets kind of boring, and before you know it, if you’re hove to on the “offshore” tack you end up in Antarctica. The last time we did the “hull holing” exercise we combined it with the “ditching and deploying a life raft” exercise, because we couldn’t get the hole fixed. (big iceberg from the melting shelf in Antarctica) Expenses got a bit out of hand there as we needed a new boat. We’d be happy to walk you through the “running aground” and “losing a rudder” exercise. Probably could combine it with a blown out sail or two and subsequent dismasting. Easy to do down here. But our insurance company insists now that our students bring their own boats for those. We look forward to hearing from you. Not many haaarrrdy folks around willing to test their mettle, so to speak, these days.
Sam.

[Ferdous]

Hah Hah funny....
But apparently RYA does actually provide a 1 day course in sea survival in which you actually deploy and get into a real life raft (albeit in a pool...but better than nothing at all.) I'm sure there are other programs out there that are more intensive than ASA.

[Michael Chudy]

Ferdous,
You are not far from Boston, so you might try Boston Sailing Center. They offer the standard courses, but are also some pretty hardy folks who might work with you to achieve your goals. I used to frostbite with them, and have taken some of their cruising courses. We went out in any weather, and dealt with lots of differing scenarios. They are true har sailors and would probably relish the idea of working with someone who wants more than the usuall fluff. Dave Franzel is the owner (or was) info@bostonsailingcenter.com
Good Sailing,
Mike