Geographic distribution of Naval Architecture grads

Has a statistic been published on the number of Naval Architecture graduates per country per year?

 

China is #1, sure

 

This would be very surprising, particularly considering the navies of both countries, which easily secure the majority of NA's. China's private sector also has some way to go yet. Luxury yachts sales are growing in China, but the numbers aren't in 150' yachts, but 16' to 25' pleasure craft. Now this may change, but China has a long way to go before a Bass Tracker is in every other driveway.

Interest in yachting continues to grow in China, but the number of Chinese buying yachts remains low relative to the number of HNWIs: There are an estimated 500,000 HNWIs, but only around 1,500 Chinese yacht owners. Barriers to yacht ownership include: potentially negative cultural perceptions, high effective taxes, and an immature (although developing) regulatory environment for pleasure boat markets.

China has lots of room to grow, but about 1,300 registered private yachts, according to state media figures. The USA there are over 17 million privately owned pleasure craft (IBA statistic).

However, some sailing enthusiasts are skeptical and say China still has a long way to go before it can rival the superyacht's natural habitats of the Mediterranean or Caribbean.

One problem is murky regulations that vary from province to province. Some cities have rules governing boat ownership and how and where they can be operated, while others don't. That makes it difficult for sailors to make longer journeys.

Poor sailing infrastructure is also a problem, with relatively few experienced staff at a small number of marinas, some of which are located in the middle of industrial areas.

 

Do Naval Architects design yachts??? 99.9% of them do not; they design ships. I would say that yacht design attracts either fans who get NA degree to come closer to their dream, or (the most of) individuals without formal degree so they can be so-so competitive in area where not too much engineering knowledge/skills/responsibility are required.

I am sure in China there are about 20 universities giving degree in NA; they definitely produce more graduates than any other country thus more people are employed. The next one soon will be India, I believe...

 

Alik, your assumptions aren't correct. Name one production yacht design, currently in a model run, developed by a designer. Actually I can name a few, but the designers are without reproach and still signed off on, by an NA. Ever try to get certification for a yacht, drawn up by someone other than a recognized NA? No, you'll find that designers are selling skiff plans to backyard builders, maybe offering kits, but Na's are developing the yachts. Lastly, the statistics don't show China making a huge move in this regard, though many graduates, much like what's coming out of other developing countries, like India, they're more marine engineers, not NA's regardless of what their diploma says. We have the most, in this country and it's understandable, considering the size of the world market share the USA enjoys. This may change, as I suggested in the previous post, but currently and in the near future, China is way behind, for the reasons previously stated and many more, left unsaid.

 

Sorry Paul, but you’re way behind on the latest data. Even this 2008 US Naval War Cellege funded report on Chinese shipbuilding states:

“..Chinese universities and maritime academies now produce nearly 1,500 marine engineers and naval architects per year, roughly seven times the number of such graduates from U.S. institutions…”

The US is actually slowly falling behind many other countries that produces NA graduates. The US’s courses on NA is getting less and now in most of the previously respected Uni’s that offered full-time degrees in NA only offer “add-on” courses to basic engineering. No longer proper full-time dedicated NA degrees courses.

 

If You just read the question in first post of topic starter, he is asking about NA graduates. Who is talking about yachts??? Yacht market is negligible compared with other fields of shipbuilding where NA's work - offshore, commercial/naval ship design, etc. Yes, some NA's work with yachts, but this is not representative...

Then, coming to design of yachts - most of designers have no any engineering degree at all, especially in US, as You might know. In best case some of designers possess Westlawn, Landing, etc. 'degrees', but those are not internationally recognized as NA degrees; in most of countries they will not be allowed to sign plans for any commercial craft, as NA's do. But this is not required for pleasure craft certification; if You worked with CE-certification of pleasure craft there is no requirement to involve recognized/certified NA.

So I would repeat: today China produce more NA graduates than any other country. You can attend any conference and You will be surprised (say, HPMV-2013 is in April) - a lot of young people, hundreds of listeners, about 20 universities presenting their (good level!) papers, research institutions to add... They publish a lot of comprehensive books with collections of translated papers and their own research, in small craft design as well - shocking and surprising. They have their own systematic series of hulls tested... So it would be self-deception to say that China is way behind, in terms of NA education they are not, also note that their education is available to anyone for free.

 

My knowledge of changes in naval architecture education in the US in the last 35 years:

University of New Orleans added a School of Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering which offers Bachelors, Masters and Doctorate degrees. These are "full-time" degrees in naval architecture and marine engineering, not "add-on" courses. The programs appear very similar to those of University of Michigan.

University of Michigan continues with its Department of Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering which offers Bachelors, Masters and Doctorate degrees. These are "full-time" degrees in naval architecture and marine engineering, not "add-on" courses. It continues to be the largest program in North America.

Webb Institute continues to Bachelors degrees in Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering. Webb does not have any other programs.

Virginia Tech added a minor in Naval Engineering to its Ocean and Aerospace Bachelors degree programs. It also offers a graduate certificate program in Naval Engineering. These are additions, not subtractions.

MIT merged its naval architecture and ocean engineering programs into its Mechanical Engineering Department. MIT offers a Bachelors degree in Ocean and Mechanical Engineering, Masters in Naval Architecture & Marine Engineering, and Doctorate in Ocean Engineering.

University of California Berkeley disestablished its Department of Naval Architecture & Offshore Engineering which had been very small.

University of Michigan and Webb Institute were and continue to be the largest "full-time" programs in the US and are joined by the program at University of New Orleans. The major loss was MIT, while the loss of UC Berkely was not that signicant because it had been a very small program.

 

Then, talking about India - they still have long way to go in production side, but given their population and the fact that IRS (Indian Register of Shipping) has recently become IACS member, they have huge potential to grow. There are few Universities offering degree in NA and I believe they might already outnumber US in quantity of NA graduates per year. I was in IRS new head office in Mumbai just last week - definitely they are growing fast.

 

I am talking about today, rather than previous 35years; which used to be excellent. And I wondered whether this comment would be picked up.

I had dinner with my Uni’s Vice Chancellor 2 months ago when he was on a worldwide tour. He used to be a Prof at MIT for over 10years teaching NA. He was outlining to me the decline of NA courses in the US, he’s a man that knows and thus I don’t doubt him.

If you look at, for example the Uni of Michigan course, there is a course entitled Bachelor of Science degree in Engineering (Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering) - (B.S.E. Nav. Arch. & Marine E.)

Fine, but look at the course content here:
http://name.engin.umich.edu/undergraduate-program-2/undergraduate-program-requirements

I don’t quite understand all this “credits” malarkey listed, however to get your degree the main core subjects are not NA related, they are engineering. The core NA subjects are listed as “program” subjects. There is only 4 hours for marine structures, or a total of 8 hours for hydrodynamics in the whole course??!!! Thus, while these are promoted as full-time courses, what you are actually learning is very minor indeed.

Especially when you compared to Southampton Uni's comprehensive NA degree:
http://www.southampton.ac.uk/engine...ineering/j640_beng_ship_science.page?#modules

 

And on another side of spectrum is this:
http://www.lloydsmaritimeacademy.com/event/naval-architecture-distance-learning
One day, they might also call themselves NAs??? Where this World is moving...

 

FWIW, it wasn't Vorus who established the program there, I know Bob Latorre left UoM in '84 to go down there. Vorus didn't go down as prof emeritus until he retired from UoM in '96.

Anyway, neither a piece of paper or a job discription make a person a Naval Architect. As ships move from "one offs" to "comodities" all you need is butts in seats to do weights and moments. I have said befefore that the world only needs a dozen or so Naval Architects. Everyone else just copies...look at all the threads out there for that....

 

I'm also talking about today and how it compares to 35 years to 40 years ago.

Ad Hoc's appears to have incorrectly interpreted some of the terminology used on the University of Michigan website.

The University of Michigan curriculum hasn't changed much in the last 35 years, and probably a lot longer than that. So no decline there. When MIT had a Naval Architecture department its curriculum was similar.

I'll try to clarify and explain some of the terminology used in the US university system and specifically by the University of Michigan.

The University of Michigan Bachelors degree program is 4 years /8 semesters with each semester having 14 weeks of lectures and labs followed by 1 1/2 weeks of study days and exams. 1 credit hour corresponds to 1 hour of lectures per week for one semester for a total of 14 hours of lectures. A 4 credit hour course would have 4 hours of lectures per week for 14 weeks semester for a total of 56 hours of lectures, not 8 hours. Individual courses are usually 3 or 4 credit hours with a few at 1, 2 or 5 credits hours. A normal course load is 5 courses with 15 to 18 credit hours per semester with a total of 128 credit hours required for the Bachelors degree.

The University of Southampton program is 3 years / 6 semesters and it appears that typically 5 modules are studied each semester. So a "module" at Southampton appears to correspond to a "course" at Michigan.

Now for a comparison of the University of Michigan and University of Sourthampton bachelors degree programs in naval architecture based on the information in the links Ad Hoc provided. The list and amount of time spent on required and options engineering and naval architecture "courses" at Michgian and "modules" at Southampton are similar. The exceptions are that Michigan requires the equivalent of an additional semester of math and science courses and the addition of the equivalent of a semester of humanties courses, and Southampton requires 4 modules (equivalent to 4/5 of a semester) in "business" and management.

Southampton requires 10 modules which appear to be specficially naval architecture and marine engineering. It appears possible to take an additional 4 naval architecture/marine engineering modules (based on 5 modules/semester) though it also appears possible to not take any additional naval architecture/naval architecture specific modules.

Michigan requires a minimum of 12 naval architecture/marine engineering specific courses with a total of 42 credit hours. It is possible to take an additional 2 naval architecture/marine engineering specific courses.

Based on the links Ad Hoc provided it appears that contrary to the assertions made above the University of Michigan's four year program has as much or more naval architecture/marine engineering content than the University of Southampton's three year program.

 

Thanks, I'll correct my post above.

 

The two American Naval Architects that I know graduated from SUNNY, State University of New York , in the 1980s. I assume they still train NAs