Drafting Machine Question

[jacks-davis]

Hello - I just enrolled into YDS and I’m in the process of getting all things I need for class. I’m currently looking at getting a drafting machine and would like to know your opinions on the following:

Should I go with an elbow or a track system?
Does they type of head matter?
New or used one?
If I go used who do you recommend?
Also where is a good place to find used systems?

Thank you,
AJ

[Paul B]

I donated an old Vemco drafting machine a few months ago. I owned it for over 20 years and never used it. It came with the used drafting table I bought in college. Getting the tension correct and keeping it that way was too much bother. I would have given it to you.

I much preferred using a parallel rolling straightedge. Be sure you get a nice big table, 60" width would be good, and install the straightedge. When you're not using it you can roll it to the top or bottom of the table and it is out of the way.

I think you'll find that it is easier to draw the nice long parallel lines than if you try to use the shorter rules attached to a drafting arm.

I know one professional designer who never used either type in their office. Only metal straightedges were allowed. It took more time, but results were the same. That would be your least expensive option.

I think I have an old 36" straightedge out in the garage, without the mounting hardware. If you were local (Southern California) it would be something you might be able to use. If you factor in shipping and hardware it is probably as cheap to buy a new one.

Thanks for you input Paul, I will check into getting a larger board and mounting a straightedge.

thanks again
-AJ

[yipster]

AJ,
guess a 23 inch (better bigger) monitor and rest is not what they want?
must confes: i should not have dumped the old drawing board...

[Willallison]

I have a drafting machine....sitting on the floor next to my drawing board. I use a parallel straight edge.
The Westlawn text makes mention of using neither - as Paul B suggests. Traditionally, marine drafting is done without taping the paper to the board. This is because there are so many complex shapes involved in boat design. Instead a straight edge and / or two 45 degree angles are used for straight lines. This leaves the designer free to move the 'paper' around.
I had a quick go at this, but found it a little awkward - practise makes perfect I guess...

I liked my old vemco drafting machine. It was an old 'crackled' finshed model that I picked up used. I got a 24" and 30" clear horizontal rule and an 18" clear vertical rule for it. It wasn't perfect, but it was steady and a lot faster than a t-square. I never had a good solid table-mounted parallel rule - only a cheap flimsy one where the wires kept springing loose and I never trusted it to be 100% on, so maybe I'm biased because of experiencing only this very very poor parallel rule.

[Chris Krumm]

Find a used 60" track drafting machine. I too have an old Vemco wrinkle-finish unit. Got it for $25 in the "junk" pile of a used office furniture store in Seattle that just needed a spring. Vemco's are heavy tanks, but very rigid. Mutoh's are light and silky smooth, but a bit springy. Brunings are in between. Go to ebay and I'll bet you can get 1 with 2 scales for less than $100. DOn't worry if the scale set isn't graduated as you'd like - I use my architectural scale far more than referring to the scales on the machine. They list at ~$1000 new, but no one buys 'em new anymore.

A parallegram arm is OK, and I bet you can buy one for under $50. That wouldn't be my first choice.

If you can afford the room and don't mind scrounging around your used office supply furniture places: Get yourself a big, rigid drafting table, like an old Mayline with a paper or template drawer underneath and the box-over-file drawer to the right or left. get one you can set up at stool height, 'cuz nothing beats being able to shift from standing to sitting on the stool to minimize fatigue. Be sure the table has a pencil tray at the bottom, so you aren't holding the pencils scale rules in your teeth or on your lap.

Set up a return counter to your left or right to hold reference books, other drawings, notes , etc. And after that, add a computer desk to form a "U" with the return counter in between so you can go from paper design to computer design just by spinning your stool!

All of the ship design firms I worked in (until CAD came along) used old industrial doors from building reclaimers as boards. Hospital "kick" doors were best, since they had no hardware holes and were wide (enough for a gurney with someone beside it). They were usually mounted on home made cabinets at each end about a foot wide with a top drawer, and the remainder of the cabinet divided into cells for rolled drawings by egg-crated hardboard. We generally used Maylines, though I've also used a drafting arm. I agree that the Mayline is better (and much cheaper). A 48" Mayline is more than enough, and it leaves the rest of the board for open drawings and books. A full widh add on pencil tray at the bottom (sort of like the gutter on a roof) with a cup holder so you won't spill stuff onto the drawing completes the picture. You can slant the board a bit if you like, but I never did. (Note that you should get in the habit of buckling your belt on one side so the buckle doesn't rub the drawing when you lean on it, or you can wear a draughtsman's jacket or vest.)

Note though, that "D" size (metric A1), 34"x22" drawings are really about the limit of convenience in shop use, so a much smaller board is nearly as useful. My current board is only 24 x 36, (with a 36" Mayline) and folds up flat with its stand.

[Lew Morris]

ah.... . .

as an old-school industrial designer type, it warms the cockles of my heart to hear people talking about USING pencils, 'n erasures, 'n templates, 'n Vemcos, 'n triangles, 'n eraser shields, 'n splines, 'n the like ................

[SailDesign]

jacks-davis,
I have to be honest - when I was just learning design, it was pointed out that "drafting machines" were not accurate enough for drawing fair lines plans. Use a good long straight-edge, and construct perpendiculars, and you'll spend less time drawing the curvy parts. ;-)

Steve

[Chris Krumm]

SailDesign's advice to keep it "simple and straight" is probably good, and it keeps your costs to a minimum for setting up your drawing board. And he has the design experience to back it up, but...

I've spent 20 years moving from Mayline parallel rule through to CAD, and I stick with the Vemco track machine for manual drafting. Get a solid machine, adjust it dead-nuts on, and you'll be so glad you're not spending time erecting perpendiculars or using an adjustable triangle when you want to layout odd angles and projections lines. I've never had a problem drawing straight lines full width or height across my 60" board. Calibration diagonals corner-to-corner on that 60" board are within 1/64,", so perpendicularity is not an issue either.

When you start doing construction drawings and detailing where views appear all over the paper, you'll be glad you have the machine (or maybe you'll have just gone to CAD by then because you're tired of all the erasing from the constant revisions you'll be doing in boat design!)

[SailDesign]

Chris says:
"When you start doing construction drawings and detailing where views appear all over the paper, you'll be glad you have the machine (or maybe you'll have just gone to CAD by then because you're tired of all the erasing from the constant revisions you'll be doing in boat design!)"

Heehee..... Yes, that would work. There is alot to be said for staying away fromCAD while you learn drafting, simply because you learn how to lay out a drawing better by hand - because you HAVE to lay it out well the first time.
But, DANG I love the 'puter now.

Steve "put in his time at the table"

[ErikG]

What is "a parallel straight edge" or "paralell rule" (same thing)?

Also I'd like some suggestions on what/wich type of planimeter I should buy... I checked on EBAY and found 22!

EBAY LINK

YDS recommends a compensating polar planimeter. Do they come with different scales? Are they different if they are to be used w metric or US/English system?

Any thoghts?

I have to start spending more time doing manual drafting, and stay of the 'puter for a while.

[jonathan]

ErikG,
I checked the link, and the price range is *incredible*.
From £0.99 to $750. Is that possible or is it a mistake ??

[ErikG]

Well, Ebay is an auction site so prices wary alot, that's why I asked what model would be appropriate and if there are planimeters for both metric and US/English units.

Prices vary a lot also because new digital planimeters are a lot more expensive than the old mchanical ones.