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 Boat Design Forums 40 year old needs new engine.

#16
08-07-2012, 05:35 AM
 CDK retired engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Rep: 1653 Posts: 2,675 Location: Adriatic sea
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bigswede ...anyways, he was very kind and gave some really excellent figures on power consumtion and speed. From the figures one can easily see where things is starting to draw power. Power Speed 0,7Hp 3kt 1,3Hp 4kt 2,0Hp 4,6kt 2,6Hp 5,0kt 5,0Hp 5,8kt 6,2Hp 6kt This is surley no news to you guys but I was amazed to see that one only needed 1Hp to get almost 4kt of speed. Of course these power ratings are estimates as they seem to be (Amps x Voltage) / 746 = Hp.
There is a discrepancy between this table and the Albin graph, probably because the electric drive has hydrodynamic peculiarities or the measuring conditions were not quite stable. 0.7 hp for 3 kt seems to good to be true, but to reach 6 kt the power increases 9-fold. And that the power almost doubles to get from 5 to 5.8 kt makes the parabolic curve steeper than in the Albin manual.

Anyhow, for 6 kt sustained speed 4.5 kW is required. A 100 Ah car battery (24 kg), allowed to discharge to 50% can only provide the required power for approx. 7 minutes (ignoring actual voltage/current requirements), so you can easily calculate how many batteries you'd have to carry around for a weekend at sea.....
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#17
08-07-2012, 06:34 AM
 FAST FRED Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Rep: 836 Posts: 3,606 Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
Volvo Penta 3cylinder MD3B (later a MD17C at the same power) rated at 36hp which gave it a top speed of 10knots and a economical speed of around 9knots.

The MD 1 was rated 15hp, the MD2 rated at 25 Hp and the MD3 at 35 HP.

These all used the same components , just more cylinders.

So it is realistic to believe the MD3 full power was closer to 45 hp than its rating.

Not many 2 cyl Kubota will produce 45 Hp .

If water skiing is the requirement a small Yanmar might be light enough.But they are very pricy.

Is there no place you can ship your existing engine for a factory style rebuild ?

Might be easier and would save the character of a fine boat.

FF
#18
08-07-2012, 07:24 AM
 Bigswede Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Rep: 24 Posts: 14 Location: Hammarö, Sweden
The MD1B was rated at 10hp DIN @2500 rpm.
The MD2B was rated at 25hp DIN @2500 rpm.
The MD3B was rated at 36Hp DIN @2500 rpm
...according to the Volvo manual.

No, water skiing is not a requirement
I just want some more "oumph".

There is only one place to get spare parts for the AD-21 and they are starting to get expensive. Also the major parts of the engine are now 40 years old. It's time to change. In fact it's still amazing that it works as good as it still does.

Converting an VW engine will set me back around 2500-3000\$ (Engine, heat exchanger, transmission and all other stuff).
For that amount I can probably get the old engine rebuilt but still end up with a very old engine which its hard to find any spare parts for. Also with the VW engine I get double the power.

I do agree with you that an old 2 cylinder engine has more charisma then a more modern 4cyl. Anyway I will not throw the old engine away, perhaps I'll restore it some day.

Last edited by Bigswede : 08-07-2012 at 07:27 AM. Reason: Spelling...crap.
#19
08-07-2012, 07:51 AM
 CDK retired engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Rep: 1653 Posts: 2,675 Location: Adriatic sea
This is the list of basic conversion parts to turn a 1.9 VW engine into a marine diesel. For the normally aspiring Rabbit engine skip all turbo charger related items.
Attached Files
 conversion.txt (3.6 KB, 82 views)
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#20
08-07-2012, 07:56 AM
 Bigswede Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Rep: 24 Posts: 14 Location: Hammarö, Sweden
Thanks a million CDK!
#21
08-08-2012, 02:02 AM
 Telein Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Rep: 24 Posts: 12 Location: N. California USA
Yes CDK. Thank you for the list, it will be helpful in my research.
#22
08-12-2012, 04:28 PM
 Bigswede Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Rep: 24 Posts: 14 Location: Hammarö, Sweden
Today I bought an engine or should I say three!?

I got one working engine and two spare part engines for 280\$.
The working came from an banged up Rabbit and one of the donor engines was infact from a Transporter and thus had another type of airfilter. The only thing missing was the starter motor.

Washed off the worst grease and dirt and sprayed them with some wd40 equivalent.

After getting a Haynes manual I will start with a complete tear down of the working one. Get everyting checked, cleaned and painted.

...the project has started !

I got a quote for the Bowman heat exchanger from Lancing Marine in the UK.
They want £523 (820\$) + shipping. I heard from CDK that I might find it cheaper in the US so I must check that out?
#23
08-13-2012, 04:09 AM
 CDK retired engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Rep: 1653 Posts: 2,675 Location: Adriatic sea
There is a name tag on the engines, with a number preceded by a 3-digit code. The transporter engine is probably a 1.9 with the starter motor mounted on the bell housing (AAZ or ADE). They may all look the same but not all parts are interchangeable.

The price for the manifold/heat exchanger isn't bad. I bought mine from Mesa Marine several years ago, but they increased their prices (\$990 now).
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#24
08-13-2012, 12:25 PM
 Bigswede Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Rep: 24 Posts: 14 Location: Hammarö, Sweden
No, pretty sure all engines are 1.6L NA.
Transporters (VW Type 2 T3) between 81-87 had that engine.
I'll get the exact engine code next time I look.

I have ordered the Haynes manual.

...I found this interesting book while roaming the web.
Its called "Four Cylinder DIESEL 1977-1983 ProTraining" and is printed by Volkswagen in the US in 1982.
The files is called "VW_Service_diesel_77-83.pdf" and I'll think you'll find it interesting!!

Hope I don't break any board rules by linking to it.
#25
08-14-2012, 05:06 AM
 CDK retired engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Rep: 1653 Posts: 2,675 Location: Adriatic sea
That's correct, they started with 1.6, later 1.7 engines. If you understand German there are several forums for what they call the "Bulli".
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#26
08-14-2012, 06:44 AM
 FAST FRED Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Rep: 836 Posts: 3,606 Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
Also with the VW engine I get double the power.

However none of the power will be useful on a displacement hull, unless you want another 2K ,double the fuel burn, and to create a 4 ft deep wake.
#27
08-14-2012, 11:53 AM
 Bigswede Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Rep: 24 Posts: 14 Location: Hammarö, Sweden
Quote:
 Originally Posted by FAST FRED However none of the power will be useful on a displacement hull, unless you want another 2K ,double the fuel burn, and to create a 4 ft deep wake.
I do appreciate your concerns Fred but as the Albin 25 has a semi-displacement hull it is actually possible to go faster than the "hull speed" of an ordinary displacement boat.

As we discussed earlier the later models had a larger engine installed from factory (36hp vs 22hp) and with that engine it made 10-11kts, an increase of 2-3kts. But top speed not being my main concern, reliability is. If I get an increased top speed as well, well thats a bonus. As it is now just a relative mild current or headwind will drop my top speed with 1-2kts.

Actually there is a crazy guy down in Holland I think that put in an 87HP something Lombardini engine and it made the boat do 15kts and 18.3kts after modifying the transome. It's not pretty and the boat was definitely not desgined for it.
#28
08-18-2012, 03:44 PM
 Bigswede Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Rep: 24 Posts: 14 Location: Hammarö, Sweden
Crap!

...back to the old drawingboard.

As I mentioned earlier I bought 3 engines from a bloke nearby.
They were all supposed to be 1.6L VW Diesels from old Rabbits (Golf).

After a closer inspection it turns out to be two 1.5L engines (CK) and one stripped 1.6L engine (JP).

Talked to the guy and he was as supprised as I was and offered me to buy back the whole lot. I'm thinking of perhaps keeping the JP engine as a spare/donor engine as I think its quite ok inside even if it misses some things on the outside. I will remove the head and have a peek. At least the cam looked ok. Don't know yet if the valves are ok...

Whats your opinion on hydraulic lifters or mechanic lifters ?
Should one look for hydraulic or is it quite ok with mechanical ?
#29
08-19-2012, 04:13 AM
 CDK retired engineer Join Date: Aug 2007 Rep: 1653 Posts: 2,675 Location: Adriatic sea
I would prefer hydraulic lifters, especially if the engine access is difficult. After rebuilt and run-in, the valve play must be readjusted. With hydraulic lifters there is no adjustment, just oil and filter change.
Also note that the CK engine has nearly 20% less torque than the JP.
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#30
08-19-2012, 10:45 AM
 Bigswede Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Rep: 24 Posts: 14 Location: Hammarö, Sweden
Do you know the difference between JK and JP engines?

It seems that JK has somewhat higher torque and it also is delivered earlier.
Has the JK engine another cam or is it something else ?
They have the same bore and stroke. Thus the compression is the same.

Quote:
 From wikipedia: 40 kilowatts (54 PS; 54 bhp) @ 4,800 rpm; 102 newton metres (75 lbf·ft) @ 2,000 rpm — JK 40 kilowatts (54 PS; 54 bhp) @ 4,580 rpm; 100 newton metres (74 lbf·ft) @ 2,300 rpm — JP