Yanmar - How long should it take for oil pressure to come up from a cold start?

[masalai]

Go and have a "bitch" on http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/ope...-21157-79.html it needs some more interest and I am just too "**** off" to refrain from swearing...

[Jimbo1490]

Richard (apex1) has demonstrated his (usual) engineer/designer's understanding of the reciprocating engine. Kudos!

One tiny corner was not covered in his long post, and I will try to cover it briefly. It often arises in casual discussions of engines that "6 cylinder engines vibrate too much" or some such. The person so stating usually applies this pronouncement to all 6 cylinder engines. As Richard so ably explained (and provided a nice animated Gif, no less) the inline 6 cylinder engine is perfectly balanced for both primary and secondary moments.

Likewise for any V6 which posseses a bank angle which is a multiple of 60, ie 60, 120, or 180 degrees (a Porsche engineer once told me to think of the boxer engine as a 180* vee). These 6 cylinder engines are also in perfect balance.

So where did this myth come from? I think it is from the (uniquiely?) American practice of 'chopping' two cylinders off of a (90*) V8 engine to create a V6, a practice that only a corporate bean-counter could love.

Such engines are never in balance and furthermore have some rather problematic timing/firing order issues. A couple of different novel (odball) schemes have been adopted to ameliorate these issues, centered around splitting and offsetting the crankpins on adjacent cylinders to reduce (but not eliminate) the firing order/balance problems created by the fact that two cylinders must approach TDC on one bank with only one approcahing TDC on the other on each revolution. At least three split schemes were devised, two by Buick and one by Chevrolet, They are all different, with different degrees/directions of split with different firing orders and secondary balance characteristics. But they are all rather 'shaky' engines and require very soft mounts. The crankshafts tend to be weak because of the the split pins, also. The Chevy especially had a problem here.

I believe that this is the source of the persistent myth about 6 cylinder engine balance, as these engines are very common here in the US.


Suffice it to say that the 90* V6 is an engineering abomination, one that (I doubt) we will ever see made in Germany . The smaller Ford V6 was originally a German design and has 60* vee angle.

Jimbo

[Frosty]

Ok Ok ive just emailed accusump supplier OK???

Not 100% on this but I can at least ask about the shipping.

I agree its a better system,---but not necessarily better than the pump.

Fedex is probably more than the entire pump kit!! we will see.

"7 year old engines now 156 hours only." There has now been more time donated to this individual's "problem" than the engine will have remaining life. Marine age (age of an engine sitting and not necessarily being used - which brings up a moot question - why expensive diesels for this boat?) is a bigger killer than perceived inadaquate pre-lube in this application.
I have friends with this same engine that put this many hours on in the first two weeks of the engines' life and now have almost 20,000 hrs.. 20,000 hours here is the amount of time spent bleating about the short straw (and those poor Yanmars will likely not see 2,000). I related early in this thread what the problem with this engine/transmission combination was and who to contact for answers (Tony Athens, Oxnard, CA).

[masalai]

Getting a little lazy old man? - - so am I....

Mark, - - The USA's overblown $$$ (killer exchange rates that can vary by 15% overnight), very expensive freight forwarding (FedEX $200 for not much more than a brown 12 x 9 inch manila envelope) and time-zones make trading with USA almost a "do-not-consider" event.... Then there is no fat in the market to allow a small business to do a "favour" job... So get real and get off your indignant "high horse"...

[Frosty]

775 Do you have an Email?

[murdomack]

Frosty,

If as you said earlier your bottles are the same as the pre-lube system that you were oiffered,then it should work the same. If you have the bottles and valves why not set one up as an experiment. Start up as you do now and bleed pressure into the bottle, shut down and take oil level readings, topping up if required. Start up using the pre-lube, close the valve before the system has had a chance to re fill, then shut down and read your oil level again. This will show if too much oil is flowing into your engine.

It may be that a resistance builds up when you release the oil into the engine that keeps a fair bit of oil back in the bottle. That could be why the pre-lube kit manufacturer asks for a 4 quart bottle for your engine.

[murdomack]

Sorry about the double post, I realized on reading it that putting 1/2 Gal in the bottle without pressurising will not work I've deleted my earlier one.

[Frosty]

Might just do that Murdo Knock up a temp job and see if it works. i could pull out the bridge sender and fit a small 3/8 tap (think i got some) and pip it up to the tank ( thoroughly cleaned out first of course)

Thanks to you and yellowbutt for just bouncing ideas back and forth. It really makes a difference when your feeling your way in unknown territory.

Right better get off my butt then and get that tank cleaned. Its not too bad actually I lowered a white LED on a bit of wire inside, surface rust but not flaky.

Or shall I wait for Acusumps quote, 3 quart 160 dollar no valve, depends on shipping x2.

No word from Yanmar and its after 6 in Aus now ---sigh,--- usual ****.

Fck it I could go for a shower,--- go to the bar and think a bit more.

[Frosty]

Here we go they want a wire transfer, what is a wire transfer? is it a telegraphic transfer.

yes it is Frosty

[Frosty]

Right well thats out then. I cant send money to America by wire!! the bank says I cant because of clause 44 I can only send money to a nominated account in my own name. Great security but a bit restrictive. They wont take a credit card. Dont Americans whinge on about they cant export because China uses child labour?

Yanmar says all 6LP filters drain out --its normal for 5 to 6 second prime times. So now you know!!!!
The rattle is ZF gearboxes which do it all the time (we knew this didnt we)

One guy says there is a new plate another does'nt know.

Not heard from 775 with a contact for his Yanmar expert, serious I would like his email. or the email of any of his friends who have these engines apparantly,-- and can put as many hours as I have in a week. I would like to talk to any one with a 6lp.

Gone off the cylinder idea I don't like the thought of putting unfiltered oil into the galleries.

11.30pm watching telly I had a brain storm, ran out and went to the engine room. "YES" the oil filter housing has a perfect place to drill a 10mm hole straight into the feed gallery of the filter housing, and is accessable with a drill without removing.

Allready drilled and taped to 1/8NPT,--- there i shall fit what ever I decide to fit, probably a pump now and this will pump oil into to the place where it should be,--in to the filter.

This will keep original filter and keep its 2 stage filter system that the 6lp has.

All I need now is a longer banjo bolt for a double banjo on the dipstick tube on the sump and a small 12V pump, this will pump oil into the intake of the oil filter just as the engines pump does.

Trying to think of some automotive 12V hydraulic pump that will deliver 50psi or there abouts. The Piusi pump that I can get is a fuel transfer and will only reach 1 bar however that could be because of the in built by pass valve ( I dont know) Its a vane pump and I need to think how I can minimize flow and decrease volume in exchange for some more pressure.

I love making stuff.



Dri

[masalai]

Shhhhhhh everybody, genius at work... Will we see what is to be seen when it is ready???? Frosty, that means "before and after" pictures...

[Yellowjacket]

Frosty....

Make sure you plumb some kind of one way valve into your pumping system...

Othewise if you get enough pressure in the gallery overcome the friction in the pump it will start running backwards and act like a turbine. That would allow oil to flow back to the sump thru your pump.....

[powerabout]

Frosty
The BMW diesel stern drives and inboards rattled badly when shutting down, the petrols a little less.
So its normal in the Hurth boxes but sounds bad I'll agree