Steyr

[Dave Hancox]

I'm currently looking at options to power an 8.75m Alu. power (Diesel) boat. Does anyone have any comments, good or bad regarding Steyr 250hp?

Thanks

Dave

[FAST FRED]

The two concerns , first the electric injection , and weather it can stand a side strike of lightning.

Second is the cam is belt driven , fine in cars & trucks , but a belt failure while operating could cause the loss of the cylinder head , which in this case is almost the entire engine.

I would love to use one , but offshore , I don't dare.

For a day boat , why not?

FF

[Raggi_Thor]

I only know that Hydrolift has used it in some of there models. I think I would have noticed in the press if they had more than normal failures.

http://www.hydrolift.com/partners/steyer.asp

[FAST FRED]

A 24 ft boat does not require the reliability of a vessel that operates in the ocean .

The engine questions are just that Questions , if it suits the intended use you have , Steyer has a good reputation.

Rowing back from a cruise to the southern ocean would probably not be a requirement.

FF

[StianM]

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

The two concerns , first the electric injection , and weather it can stand a side strike of lightning.

I asked them this in the past because we landed to chenge out KAD's
There answer was that the injection is mecanical and is only electronical controled. If the electronics fail it will just reduce the load to 75% i think it was or maybe it was 50%? Not shure, it could even have ben 25%

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

Second is the cam is belt driven , fine in cars & trucks , but a belt failure while operating could cause the loss of the cylinder head , which in this case is almost the entire engine.

I would love to use one , but offshore , I don't dare.

For a day boat , why not?

FF

Loss of cylinder head? I don't think so.

Aluminium tops are far easier to weld and I would exspect the rocket arm to be designed to be the weak link. I have had two cars with belt drive and lots off people I know have cars with belt drive. Not a single one I know hawe broken theres. Now moust engines have headgasket witch steyr don't and I know alot off people having lost power because off a broken gasket and even had there engine stop.

[FAST FRED]

Loss of cylinder head? I don't think so.

I wrote to Steyer about that specific question.

"Will the engine be destroyed by belt failure at speed ?"

No response in 2 months, does not give me much hope.

FF

[marshmat]

I have had two cars with belt drive and lots off people I know have cars with belt drive. Not a single one I know hawe broken theres.

Most cars with belt-driven cams have the belts changed regularly, of course. Fred's point is that if the belt fails, in some designs the valves will hit the pistons. If this is the case, the engine can be pretty much destroyed by a belt failure. Hence why Fred feels it's not a good setup for a boat engine, which you are absolutely dependent on in the middle of nowhere. Car breaks a belt, you get a tow. Boat does and you're stranded mid-Atlantic.

[StianM]

And how often dos a car nead a tow because off belt faliure?

Moust egines can handle a belt faliure just fine. The rocket arms are normaly designed to break first.

Now how manny times dos a engine fail because you blow a head gasket and lose your cooling water? The water in mid atlantic is not suited for engine cooling (this is a proble unless you instaled a evaorator) and if you really are mid atlantic you won't like to give your drinking water to a engine.

I don't think the steyr is beher or worse then anny other engine regarding reabilety.

[Crag Cay]

Perhaps it's a geographical thing but in the UK, cam belts breaking on diesel cars are very common, even when replaced regularly.

Manufactureres take a calculated risk when recommending the cam belt replacement interval. They don't want to make it too short or potential car owners will worry about undue servicing costs, but make it too long and too many people will grumble about their 'engines blowing up'. The usual recommended interval is often somewhere around 70000miles (or three years). Some models seem more vunerable than others, but even a routine change at half that interval does not make you immune from such problems.

I have been fastidious about car servicing but have had cam belt failures on a Ford, Peugot and Mercedes over the last 20 years. None of this has come as a suprise to my garage owning brother who deals everyday with such problems. In all cases the engines have needed major work with extensive damage to the pistons.

He reckons cam belt failure and the damage inflicted by using cheap supermarket fuels are the only reasons so many garages are able to stay in business.

[StianM]

I defenly think some car manufacturers might gamble, but a marine diesel no.
And I had two cars now with belt drive. I had timing problems on my first. It seamed like the valve timing changed with the running hours. I often had to time the belt by 2 teeth. In the end it turned out the be the splint in the crankshaft having a bad fitt resulting in the weel slipping around the crank changing the timing. I did not find out befour the fitt was so bad that I could turn the crank without the cam turning. My fathers ford 1995 and my stratus 1999 has encountered 0 problems and I know nobody else having them eather.

I think a have seen a picture off a steyr fitted in a aircraft. that should be convincing enough?

[marshmat]

The fundamental question regarding the Steyr's belt-driven cam has not yet been answered:
If the belt fails, is it possible for the valves to impact the pistons?
If the answer is no, then sure, use it, just carry a spare belt and cam-timing tools. If the answer is yes, then I don't trust it for mid-ocean use.
I have seen engines that have been torn down after a belt failure. If the pistons touch the valves, the pistons, cylinder heads, valvetrain, and sometimes the block are flat-out wrecked.

[Pericles]

The belts on a Revetec are highly visible, The team are working on an aero engine version. It might be something I would be prepared to trust, if it were fitted in a boat, as 2500 feet up is not where I'd want a breakdown.

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/050302.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revetec

Pericles

[Jet A1]

High Guys,

Hello to all its my first posting here.

It is true, I have converted the Steyr M1 140 HP engine for aircraft use. with "pimped" electronics we have a take off power of 160HP, the engine is designed for 200HP. The homolgation process for this engine was pretty easy, the belt drive never was an issue, it was proven by failure reports which was zero. An issue was electric power supply, as if there is no 12V the engine still have to run. It was easy accomplished by a mechanical link to the injectors/pumps which is standard on this engine.
To my knowledge all other modern electronic controlled engine will stop in case of a 12/24V bus failure! and do not have an override system!

Another good point for the engine is the "limp home" capability in case of loss of the water cooling. When the cooling water gets too hot, the electronic automatically reduces power down to 2000 revs, even with no water in the engine you can go home. (Thanks to monoblock design)

I am now 30 years in the boating business and I have no memory of a belt/chain drive failure, but very often hot engines with bent zylinder heads or melted piston/liners, because of blockage of seawater inlet, even from plastic bags. Makes a total write off as well.
Any medium to high rev engine which blows the valve drive is a total loss, so you rule out CAT, Volvo, Cummins, MAN, MTU, MerC, any engine with a good power/weight ratio.

And you should not fly piston driven aircrafts!!!!
These engines are much more prown to mishaps because of their weight limits compared to marine engines.

I have seen the Steyr 250 HP engine already, but I think it will take some time until it will be availiable for retail customers.

Hope this was of help,
b.r.
Wolfgang

[marshmat]

Pericles. Could you please edit post #12 to get rid of all the whitespace?

Wolfgang (aka JetA1)- So you've successfully run the thing and are convinced the belt's not an issue. But you say you should not fly piston-engine airplanes? As far as I know modern aircraft engines are pretty reliable....
I still haven't heard for sure what happens if the belt does fail....

[Pericles]

Matt,

I had a ghost in the machine.

Pericles