reliability

[peter radclyffe]

Originally Posted by mydauphin

YES, DETROIT DIESELS, I think they are the most reliable of all engines. Mine have over 15,000 hours been rebuilt 3 times, and have been on three separate boats. They still are fine. I know a guy with a WWII landing craft with the original Detroit Diesels still running. They are not highest HP per lb, or most efficient on gas, or quite, or clean. But they are above average on all. Also they are 100% mechanical, All I need is diesel, and some compress air, and they start... I don't even have turbos.

yes, considering the many problems with electrics, it may be that air start diesels are the most reliable, i remember a fishing boat that sunk in england,
they pressure washed & pumped her out, fired up the lister donkey engine by hand, filled the air tank & started the main, all in one day, hows that for reliability, in an age where too many things are unneccesarily complicated

[mydauphin]

I am not too familiar with Garners, haven't seen then around here in the States. From what your telling me they seem very reliable. The Detroit Diesels are everywhere by the thousands in all sizes and shapes. I am sure they have been far more popular and therefore cheaper to get. So I can get a 671 non-turbo in good condition for $5000, how much is a Gardner of say 250hp going for?

[Frosty]

It all depends what you are going to do with it. If you need to go to sea for days on end then you need a serious marine.

If you just want to go fishing in the bay when the weather is fine then back before dark then a 4200 RPM screemer in alluminium will do.

However I would never use electronic common rail injections stuff. Not on a boat, --your just asking for trouble.

With that in mind new engines are less reliable IMO, Caterpillar have gone this way,--

[Luckless]

Originally Posted by Crag Cay.

Without making this into a pissing contest, claiming to be the 'most reliable' is one hell of a boast.

The commuter ferries across the Solent to the Isle of Wight traditionally used Gardner powered generators that ran non stop. That's non stop for twenty years! Eventually it was stripped down for inspection and they found no discernible wear after 175000 hours. It was simply bolted back together and remained inservice on that ferry and then it's replacement.

The Kowloon Motorbus Company in Hong Kong always specified Gardner engines in their buses as each engine would out last the life-cycle of two coach bodies (25 years plus) The engines were then marinised and went to work in the fishing trawlers. Engines from the 1920 and 30's are still giving excellent service.

There's been no new Garners built in ages but demand is still sky high for these units and new parts continue to be made to keep them going. They are not everyone's cup of tea, plenty of new trawlers and ferries are launched these days with reconditioned Gardners in preference to any other marine engine available, despite having to pay more for the 'secondhand' engines.

This might be a dumb question, but if the engines are so reliable compared to other makers, then why hasn't someone tooled a plant to reproduce new ones?

[Crag Cay]

Gardners are still available as remanufactured units but it's a niche market as they are (for any given horsepower) very large, heavy, expensive, slow revving, need big propellers, don't meet the emission requirements and are very, very expensive.

So few people are either prepared to pay for the engines or give up sufficient space in their boat to house such engines, as other manufacturers make units that are smaller, lighter, quieter, cheaper whilst being reliable enough.

But the OP question was "what's the most reliable?"

Sure the Gardners are, there are few other close to them though:

High Speed - Low Speed Small Disp Diesels

but that´s a very academic question today because all of them are extremely beefy and hard to find.
If you buy a DD 6-71 and spend some pennies on new injectors to downrate them to 150 horses, you have a engine forever. Grandpa´s technique though.

Regards
Richard

[FAST FRED]

Detroits are many folks choice as they are very versatile. They can be assembled to turn L or R , as well as assembled to have the serviceable parts on either side.

Figure 15 hp per cylinder for longest life at 1200rpm and about 20 at 1800.

30hp or more is for sport fish , that will accept a >1000 hour rebuild.

They come in 1,2,3,4 ,6,8,12,16 cylinder versions , and NEED to be loaded to a MINIMUM of 60%..

So if you need 60hp to to cruise get the 4-71 and prop it for 1200rpm.

NOT a bigger engine as the efficiency will suck.

Injector sizes can optomize output should slightly different outputs be required.10% change perhaps.

One of the biggest advantages I find in Detroit's is their ability to be put to sleep.

The Blower can mount on either side , so the unused side will have "air box covers".

Pull the covers and spray in fogging oil in every cylinder, turn the engine so every cylinder can get a good dose, and close up.

Airtight (aluminum foil and duct tape )the intake and exhaust , and the engine can sit for a season or year ,and with little effort be recomissioned.

Rip the duct tape off , and use a charged batt , you're underway.

Yes it will smoke like the dickins for the first min of operation as the fogging oil is cleared.

FF

Originally Posted by FAST FRED

Injector sizes can optomize output should slightly different outputs be required.10% change perhaps.


FF

Rating down Fred, you can adjust a DD to a much higher percentage, almost `til idle. Up is another field.

Regards
Richard

[mydauphin]

Like I said, they are great engines. Shame no one makes them any more. I know the US Navy and CG where buying just a few years ago.

[FAST FRED]

"Shame no one makes them any more."

WHO CARES??? with a few million of almost every configuration made , and parts EZ to come by , only the more modern engines ability to get a bit more HP for a gallon of fuel is against them

With a bit of looking Aluminum DD blocks can be found and set up for a fast cruiser.

Most Mfg. no longer MAKE each and every part for their engines.
The supply chain that produced the engine parts remains , even after the Mfg has moved on to the next generation of engine..

The biggest downside on a DD is the requirement for CF II 40 wt oil, not usually everywhere , and the labor required to replace injectors , and "run the rack" take a bit of skill not found today in most boat yards.

With the DD WWII training book, most anyone that is a mechanic can do a very workmanlike job of almost anything, up to a full rebuild.

There ARE specialized tools that are DD specific, if you are doing a rebuild.

FF

[mydauphin]

Fred the biggest problem I ever had with them is getting them to stop.

Originally Posted by mydauphin

Fred the biggest problem I ever had with them is getting them to stop.

Well, as good as they are (have been), we should not forget they had their problems and disadvantages too! The awful number of parts in every engine, to mention only one.
After all the DD´s in total are not better than other makes.

Regards
Richard

[FAST FRED]

After all the DD´s in total are not better than other makes.

However "better" is as undefined and as much in the View of the operator as is "performance" or "economy".

For most boaters the ability to GET HOME is the most important concern.

An engine that DIES SLOWLY for most is "better" than one that just stops DEAD.

YES, the parts count is higher than a "modern " engine , but with constant refinement since 1936 , they are pretty reliable/available parts.

Personally I would never exchange a 20% better fuel burn for an electric injected engine that STOPS in a thunder storm.
And requires $5K of black box to start and run till the next lightning filled day. Which is Every day for 6 months of summer.

Were in FL, 100,000 lightning strikes a year .

FF

Fred

YES, the parts count is higher than a "modern " engine , but with constant refinement since 1936 , they are pretty reliable/available parts.

That has nothing to do with modern or outdated! The 2 stroke Diesel in general has the higher numbers of parts. And DD is the only brand of small 2 stroke Diesels.
And a DD does´nt die slower than 4 strokes.

Regards
Richard

[mydauphin]

I told this story before on forum, cant find it now. I was out on a older 54' Bertram. We where just 30 miles offshore when lightning hit us. A big one, it fried everything. VHF, Cellphones, generators, most batteries...Etc...
It was night, and about 8 foot seas. 40mph winds. So we are dead and bouncing up and down to the point that most were very sea sick. We had no flashlights handy, etc... One guy kept screaming, we are all going to die. We can very close to throwing him overboard.
Anyway after what seemed like an hour, we found a flashlight, got little portable generator going, found one out of four batteries undamaged and where able to start one engine a Detroit 1271. We had no gauges, or anything else. The lighting fried the panel, grounds. Only the compass and DD work. I was sold on DD then. No electronic engine would have started.

Since then I ran another boat where DD engine was waist high in water and it kept running. So when it came time to build my boat, DD with Air start.

I just need fuel and blow really hard, and they start. I can start engine from air tank.