Lugger Diesels outlawed.......!

[FAST FRED]

yes this is what i meant, but oh God those Komatzus they had cast iron pistons!!!

Most cruising boats will have engines with a high power rating (From the Add dept) and then cruise at the lowest RPM and fuel burn they can do.

The usual cruising speed is low the really high power output engines can suffer wet stacking and loads of other maladies.Including a short service life.

The construction or farm equipment marinizations usually work best at these reduced power levels, hence the use of a Komatzu or on smaller boats the Ford tractor engines.

Cast pistons , esp with square cut , rather than trapozidal rings , will do best at 30%- 60% power cruising that could kill a super turboed high power engine.

FF

Originally Posted by eponodyne

Its little brother, the DT series, is also a really good mill. We use those on iland river harbor and fleeting tugs and never ever ever have a lick of trouble with them. Regular oil and filter changes is all they ever need.

thanks epo.. to back TAD´s recommendation wich I take seriously anyway.
But I asked for a substitution of a 23 ltr. displ. engine w 550hp cont. @ 1500rpm
I easily can get these horses out of less than half the metal still cont. rated!
The Lugger I started with was designated to propel a 1.5 meter dia CPP, 2 Alternators a hydr. PTO, 2 ac compressors without notice, and still being able to push the 90´ metal trough uphill at sufficient speed.
I know that I don´t need that power in 99% of the time cruising, half of it is more than sufficient. But....Butt.....
I like the peace in mind, that my precious butt is brought home safe.

@ F F ..... I subscribe to that!

Regards
Richard

Originally Posted by Tad

20+ years of living with all three....GM, Cat, and Cummins on towboats. That's wide open all day and all night. First choice was always Jimmies, they run forever no worries, and the power was there right now!...but lots of noise, oil everywhere, and they gobbled the fuel. Cummins is quieter, cleaner, just as reliable, and stingy with the fuel. Cat is for those with money to throw around...as many failures as successes. Some great engines, 343 for instance, but also some real problem children. Just my experience, YMMV.

Did I read between the lines that the CAT C18 might be one of the kid´s?
So is the MTU / DD S60 !? ...... or what can it mean that there are so many postings about the S60 here:
http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/diesel_talk/

BTW.. as mentioned above I got a quotation for the CAT C18 @ 83.000 USD Bobtail... do you have an idea if the Cummins KTA19 is in the same ballpark?
Regards
Richard

It seems to me that I completely missed the recent IMO regulations ! ?
Who is able and willing to point out the affects on YACHTS in comparison with FISHBOATs ?
The reason for this silly question? I get my boat registered as a commercial fishboat with ease. So possibly circumnavigate some cliffs and stay with the original design.
Thanks
Richard

[Tad]

Originally Posted by apex1

Did I read between the lines that the CAT C18 might be one of the kid´s?
So is the MTU / DD S60 !? ...... or what can it mean that there are so many postings about the S60 here:

I got a quotation for the CAT C18 @ 83.000 USD Bobtail... do you have an idea if the Cummins KTA19 is in the same ballpark?

In this country (NA) right now Cat is giving engines & equipment away to get them out the door. I have no experience with the newest Cat's, I do know some Lobster fishermen in Maine have replaced them after few hours. The same guys loved the Lugger's.

The 60 series MTU is far smaller than the others we are talking of. Again I'd get serious about the Cummins KTA19 and the Mitsubishi S6R. Prices delivered in Turkey will vary with exchange rates, I would talk with the respective dealers asap.

Little story....
A local (BC Canada) towing company has recently built two new tugs for towing logs (saltwater). The first was delivered last winter (Feb08) and is 45' by 20', draws 10'6" (48grt) and is powered with twin Cummins KTA19 (500hp @1800) with TD 5222 gear turning 62" by 52" four blade wheels in nozzles. The second boat is slightly larger and was delivered around Christmas of 08. She is 53'6" by 24'4", draws 12' and carries 10,000 imp gallons of fuel. She is powered with the Mitsubishi S6R's, (500Hp @1350) with the same TD gears turning 68" by 67" three blade wheels in nozzles. Estimated bollard pull is 41,000 pounds vs the earlier boat's 39,000 pounds. Consensus is that the Mitsubishi's produce slightly more power and cost less to purchase at this time. Otherwise the two are pretty equal, only time will tell....

Originally Posted by Tad

In this country (NA) right now Cat is giving engines & equipment away to get them out the door. I have no experience with the newest Cat's, I do know some Lobster fishermen in Maine have replaced them after few hours. The same guys loved the Lugger's.

The 60 series MTU is far smaller than the others we are talking of. Again I'd get serious about the Cummins KTA19 and the Mitsubishi S6R. Prices delivered in Turkey will vary with exchange rates, I would talk with the respective dealers asap.
l....

Thank you TAD
we pay almost the same prices here than in the US exc. Transport. There is no Import tax on such equipment and pricing here is in € or $ anyway.
What about are the KTA 19 and the S6R in USD there? Playing with the local dealers means my grandchildren enjoy the boat! I still have only children.
Regards
Richard

[peter radclyffe]

Originally Posted by apex1

It is a pity, six weeks ago I asked Lugger for a quotation and time of delivery for their 6170A Diesel and got this:


Dear Mr. R........,
please apologize for any delay in responding you, as far what I can see this is your first request which come to my attention.

As today we do have serious problem to meet our requirements as all our older models aren't in compliance with the new emission rules.

These engine will be replaced with a new model with a common rail fuel system but they availability is not known.

For now we do have the first model 11 liters called M 6125 which may meet your requirement. This engine should be available next next summer.

I will follow up with some details asap

Thank you for your kind interest.



NORTHERN LIGHTS
Mediterranean - Middle East Factory Representative
Massimo Mastrorosato: Via Gacci 4/6 - 59021 VAIANO - PO - ITALY
Tel. + 39 0574 985347 Fax + 39 0574 985286

I loved this beefy 23Ltr. set at 550hp @ 1500rpm, as the fishermen in Alaska did, for his incredible torque and reliability.
It was designated to propel via CPP a 90´ long range "Passagemaker" to be built this year in Turkey.
How to substitute such Engine
Is the CAT C18 the only option, or have I missed some???
Anyone out here with a valuable idea?
Regards
Richard

KEIVIN

[peter radclyffe]

Originally Posted by apex1

It is a pity, six weeks ago I asked Lugger for a quotation and time of delivery for their 6170A Diesel and got this:


Dear Mr. R........,
please apologize for any delay in responding you, as far what I can see this is your first request which come to my attention.

As today we do have serious problem to meet our requirements as all our older models aren't in compliance with the new emission rules.

These engine will be replaced with a new model with a common rail fuel system but they availability is not known.

For now we do have the first model 11 liters called M 6125 which may meet your requirement. This engine should be available next next summer.

I will follow up with some details asap

Thank you for your kind interest.



NORTHERN LIGHTS
Mediterranean - Middle East Factory Representative
Massimo Mastrorosato: Via Gacci 4/6 - 59021 VAIANO - PO - ITALY
Tel. + 39 0574 985347 Fax + 39 0574 985286

I loved this beefy 23Ltr. set at 550hp @ 1500rpm, as the fishermen in Alaska did, for his incredible torque and reliability.
It was designated to propel via CPP a 90´ long range "Passagemaker" to be built this year in Turkey.
How to substitute such Engine
Is the CAT C18 the only option, or have I missed some???
Anyone out here with a valuable idea?
Regards
Richard

KELVIN

Thanks Peter,
the Kelvin are well known in the commercial fleet, but too beefy for me. I´ll go for the KTM 19, and that is called overkill already by my yard.
Regards
Richard

[peter radclyffe]

[quote=Tad;247893]In this country (NA) right now Cat is giving engines & equipment away to get them out the door. I have no experience with the newest Cat's, I do know some Lobster fishermen in Maine have replaced them after few hours. The same guys loved the Lugger's.

The 60 series MTU is far smaller than the others we are talking of. Again I'd get serious about the Cummins KTA19 and the Mitsubishi S6R. Prices delivered in Turkey will vary with exchange rates, I would talk with the respective dealers asap.

Little story....
A local (BC Canada) towing company has recently built two new tugs for towing logs (saltwater). The first was delivered last winter (Feb08) and is 45' by 20', draws 10'6" (48grt) and is powered with twin Cummins KTA19 (500hp @1800) with TD 5222 gear turning 62" by 52" four blade wheels in nozzles. The second boat is slightly larger and was delivered around Christmas of 08. She is 53'6" by 24'4", draws 12' and carries 10,000 imp gallons of fuel. She is powered with the Mitsubishi S6R's, (500Hp @1350) with the same TD gears turning 68" by 67" three blade wheels in nozzles. Estimated bollard pull is 41,000 pounds vs the earlier boat's 39,000 pounds. Consensus is that the Mitsubishi's produce slightly more power and cost less to purchase at this time. Otherwise the two are pretty equal, only time will tell....[/QUOTE why do they replace the cats?

[Tad]

see http://www.sportfishermen.com/board/...8-a-60941.html

[peter radclyffe]

thanks Tad, i was unaware of all this, in europe cats have replaced a lot of gardners, kelvins, etc because their earth moving suppliers are so numerous,

Peter
the CAT reputation in the European marine community had nothing to do with other activities of the company. The engines were cheap, reliable and easy to service worldwide. The 3608 for example was a good engine too (all 36xx).
Regards
Richard

[powerabout]

36** thats a monster

Originally Posted by powerabout

36** thats a monster

Not really, did you notice what I was looking for?
and btw. I have found the engine and can get it certified!
Regards
Richard