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  #1  
Old 02-05-2012, 12:52 PM
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LP LP is offline
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Turbocad just spat on me for the last time!

Argh!

I've been using this half-donkied software for longer than I can remember. The main reason I continued to use it. Comfort. . . . and laziness. I knew most of it's quirks and I could usually get the results I needed. My favorite quirk: Format, Place on Workplane. All editing requires all elements to be on the same workplane. If you mirror or copy an element, you still have to put it on the workplane to edit it. Sorry, ranting. Typically, I save before any massive "Place on Workplane" maneuvers, but not today. The whole detail blew up in my face and undo does not undo the damage. I may have lost an hours work. Se la vie.

Alibre is headed to my computer right now. Learning curve. Oww. Was that my head hurting? Hopefully, it doesn't irk me the way TurboCrap does! Oops, starting to rant again.

Wish me luck in my learning curve! Happy Superbowl to everyone. I'll be watching the game at the Indy airport with all of my other colleagues.
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2012, 01:52 PM
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troy2000 troy2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LP View Post
Argh!

I've been using this half-donkied software for longer than I can remember. The main reason I continued to use it. Comfort. . . . and laziness. I knew most of it's quirks and I could usually get the results I needed. My favorite quirk: Format, Place on Workplane. All editing requires all elements to be on the same workplane. If you mirror or copy an element, you still have to put it on the workplane to edit it. Sorry, ranting. Typically, I save before any massive "Place on Workplane" maneuvers, but not today. The whole detail blew up in my face and undo does not undo the damage. I may have lost an hours work. Se la vie.

Alibre is headed to my computer right now. Learning curve. Oww. Was that my head hurting? Hopefully, it doesn't irk me the way TurboCrap does! Oops, starting to rant again.

Wish me luck in my learning curve! Happy Superbowl to everyone. I'll be watching the game at the Indy airport with all of my other colleagues.
I tried TurboCad when it first came out, and it soured me on CAD programs for 25 years. But I recently downloaded Dassault's free 2d program, called DraftSight, and I'm happy with it. It closely mimics AutoCad, so shouldn't be hard for you to get along with...

Dassault also has Solidworks, its 3d program. I assume it issued DraftSight in hopes that individuals, companies and institutions would use it, then graduate into Solidworks.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LP View Post
The whole detail blew up in my face and undo does not undo the damage. I may have lost an hours work. Se la vie.
I've been programming since '74 -- and losing an hours work in any project wouldn't even raise an eyebrow -- let alone my blood pressure. Relax. Have a beer. Start over.

When you lose six months work because the backups, and the backups of the backups are all corrupted -- that's when you grab a bottle of Jack, go swear at the moon, and kick the furniture.
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  #4  
Old 02-05-2012, 06:08 PM
Tim B Tim B is offline
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If I have learnt anything in the last 18 months (since starting the house) it's get the right tool for the job. It just makes everything so much easier. So find a CAD package that'll do 2D, 3D and a bit of analysis, and have fun. You'll be able to do things you thought were science-fiction.

Tim B.
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2012, 10:15 AM
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All of the input is noted and appreciated.

I've used professional quality design software in the past so I have some experience in knowing how software can work and should work. It's difficult to justify the expense though for hobby use so the next viable option is to go is a software of limited scope and ability. It is very frustrating to lose work when the software itself disfigures your design and has no ability to restore it. I understand power failures and equipment failures and I'm a big believer in progressive saves of your work.

Rather than bemoan the inferior software, I think that I'll just say that I have high hopes for the new CAD package. May it meet my every expectation.
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LP View Post
All of the input is noted and appreciated.

I've used professional quality design software in the past so I have some experience in knowing how software can work and should work. It's difficult to justify the expense though for hobby use so the next viable option is to go is a software of limited scope and ability. It is very frustrating to lose work when the software itself disfigures your design and has no ability to restore it. I understand power failures and equipment failures and I'm a big believer in progressive saves of your work.

Rather than bemoan the inferior software, I think that I'll just say that I have high hopes for the new CAD package. May it meet my every expectation.
Allow me to repeat myself... DraftSight is free.

I'm hardly a professional draftsman or designer (although as a contractor I drew my own plans for years, and they usually sailed through Plan Check). But as far as I can tell, and according to the reviews I've read, DraftSight is professional quality -- for a 2d program, of course. If you're looking to do some serious 3d work, it won't be enough.

Does TurboCad have 3d capabilities nowadays? It didn't twenty five years ago, as best I can remember.....
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Last edited by troy2000 : 02-08-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-07-2012, 11:41 AM
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I use both AutoCAD and Drafsight for 2D drafting and can testify that the difference between the two is minimal. Draftsight is really well-done and reads all drawings I've created in the past with ACAD with no problems encountered so far. Therefore, as soon as my ACAD licence expires I'll shift to Draftsight.
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2012, 01:35 PM
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Manie B Manie B is offline
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I have been using TurboCAD Deluxe 2D/3D for many years and constantly upgraded - I am now on version 16, there is now an V18?

No problems and the 3D is very good
The Deluxe is inexpensive and good for the regular guy
Pro is more expensive for the "office" environment

They have many options available

http://www.turbocad.com/

at many different prices

What has worked very well over the years were the free updates, and everytime that a never version came on the market it really did not cost much. Excellent web support and web based training videos.
Folks around here that know AutoCAD recon that TurboCAD is good.
I am no expert but wont change.

All these programs need regular updates, maybe that could be part of your problems.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2012, 07:22 AM
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Troy and Daq,

I've downloaded Draftsight and will be evaluating it's potential. I'm trying to figure the 3D to 2D thing. Right now I'm using Turbocad Ancient (V8.2 Manie) that let's me do the DXF export/import from Freeship. Admittedly, I don't really do any real 3D as the conversion from model to lines drawing in this version of CAD is sketchy at most so I don't waste my time. I typically do 2D drawing in 3 space. I'm not sure how I would efficiently extract the 2D elements from the 3D DXF output.

Manie,

Believe it or not, I pondering the software you were using because of your active build. I'm actually using V8.2 PRO. I did a fairly recent trial of a later version, but many of the irritants in 8.2 are still in V17. I will try again with V18. I can upgrade to 18 Deluxe for $80, but the PRO version will cost $700.

I purchased a version of Alibre; the personal addition. It looks to be quite powerful for my needs. I like the availableity of contraints, but stupid me, I didn't investigate it's import capabilities adequately. It have no 3D import capability until you purches a pro version. $$$ It will import DXF/DWG, but only in a 2D format. Now I'm in a possible losing battle to dump the software and get a refund. I feel a burn coming on.
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Last edited by LP : 02-10-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  #10  
Old 02-08-2012, 03:42 PM
CmbtntDzgnr CmbtntDzgnr is offline
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Download a trial of Punch ViaCAD 2D/3D. I've used it from 2D/3D to Pro, and recently upgraded to Shark Lt.

http://www.punchcad.com/p-9-viacad-2d3d-v8.aspx

http://www.punchcad.com/p-8-viacad-pro-v7.aspx

If you think you may want to skin your hull by use of stations, and want moments/CGs, ViaCAD's features are pretty nifty.

It is not a standard UI, but I dumpt TC 14 after about a month of yoking around. I was able to import my DXF polylines in 3D, but TC 14 refused to let me make solids of the surfaces. It was infuriating. It seemed to contradict the packaging promises. I got to tech support, and we inconsistently got some results, as if the program was dodging or undoing solidifying.

After that, I remembered that I had simultaneously purchased Punch! ViaCAD 2D/3D (this was at CompUSA before it shut down the physical stores). I installed it and after getting my bearings, realized despite some quirks and the non-windows GUI, this -- for me -- was a hit. If your line work is neat, you will avoid many problems. But, even with some ratty curves, I could still gets mass, moments, and CGs from sideshell solids, stiffeners, and deck plating. It is disappointing that keyboard shortcuts are limited to a single letter, but as long as you don't map more than you have keys for, you should be okay, or just unassigne and reassign.

This reminds me, I really need to get off TC's mailing list. I just don't feel it will compete with ViaCAD nor Shark for hobbyist CAD designing of marine shapes.

I even years ago tried to give DesignCAD another try. But, in 1994, I spent some $800 on DC 2D/3D, a digitizer, a puck, and something else and most of it sat unused for 10 years before I ditched it. My first foray with TC was in 1989 or 1988, and it was an unmitigated disaster, totally useless for trying to draw my ships. But, then, even so was AutoCAD back then. Even today, a full-fledged 3D solids-capable app is better for dealing with compound curvature of ships.

If you download ViaCAD, be sure to set up a free account so you can pore over user issues to decide if it is what you want to commit to. It DOES have issues, but it depends on what YOU are trying to do, and what your expectations are.

Tutorials might not be in the trial download, but it depends.

What price you pay depends on what coupons you can find in one of the threads/forums. For example, randomly (or monthly) they run promos. Instead of paying some $600 for Shark Lt v 8, I paid around $250. After having so much bad timing for years, I leapt at this and don't regret it.
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:35 AM
liki liki is offline
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I also bought ViaCAD Pro from Thanks Giving sale for 99 USD. Well worth the money for home noodling, the few things I haven't been content with so far are:
- Keyboard input of values. Eventually you get the feel how it is supposed to be used, but still it could work a lot better
- Ensuring that splines and surfaces pass through given points. Still I am not quite sure is it only inaccuracies in visualization but I very often wind up with splines that do not pass through control points unless I am extra careful with positioning of the control points.

... Still I am looking to upgrade, atleast version. Maybe also for Shark in case I run across a good offer.
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:56 PM
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Thanks for all of the interest and especially to the links for the trial versions of ViaCAD. I suspect the lesser versions operate similarly to the high end versions so software usage will be similar. I almost think I had a ViaCAD package many years ago. Maybe it has grown up a bit.

Daquiri,
Are you pulling anything into Draftsight from Freeship? I'd be curious about your process if you do.

=============================================================================================================================

CmbtntDzgnr

No joy on those links (unless I'm Stupid, but I've already admitted to that). Those links are for purchase. I saw nothing on the website about trial versions.
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2012, 12:59 PM
CmbtntDzgnr CmbtntDzgnr is offline
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Per my email, for maybe 1 more day, Punch is selling Shark LT for $249.99 vs the usual $699.99. There is a coupon code, but I don't know if it is proper for me to list it since is was named to me. I imagine that if you call or write Punch/Encore, they will extend the offer to you, if you tell them you read about a February offer.

http://www.punchcad.com/p-11-shark-lt-v8.aspx

Looking at the art work on the site, you can probably quickly seize upon the idea that you can create tunnel thrusters and subtract surface or solid material.

You can google for it, but today's returns show NO prices as low as $249.99. And, it is not prominently (or at all?) shown ON their web site.

Interestingly, they did this in January, and that is how I got LT, after having used ViaCAD Pro for about 1 or 2 years. As mentioned earlier, I used to use ViaCD 2D/3D, too.


This one is most likely for UK users, in case you find regions being a factor:

http://www.cadsoftsolutions.co.uk/vi...48-hours-only/
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  #14  
Old 02-15-2012, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CmbtntDzgnr View Post
Per my email, for maybe 1 more day, Punch is selling Shark LT for $249.99 vs the usual $699.99. There is a coupon code, but I don't know if it is proper for me to list it since is was named to me. I imagine that if you call or write Punch/Encore, they will extend the offer to you, if you tell them you read about a February offer.
Thanks for the update on that. Sounds like a great deal. I will study their site a bit more. I just blew $200 on some useless (to me) software so I'm a bit gun shy right now. I'm even considering the $80 El Cheapo upgrade to TurboCad for now, until I figure out what the real software is going to be. Thanks again. Maybe there is a place I can sign up for their mailing list.
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  #15  
Old 02-15-2012, 08:29 PM
CmbtntDzgnr CmbtntDzgnr is offline
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Well, since ViaCAD/Encore Software keeps doing this monthly, it seems you can spend a couple of weeks evaluating the software you're having grief with, and maybe TC as well. But, if you are in no hurry, that is good. You should be able to download the trial version of whichever ViaCAD/Encore Software (ES Owns VC) you're interested in. IIRC, the trials run for 30 days, which is generous, compared to 14 days. But, I keep forgetting the trial length times.

You can (for free/no charge) register at:

http://forum.punchcad.com/

You can read and consider the various user issues and determine if they are relevant to your areas of interest. Even when a trial expires, you can sometimes if not almost always extend it by writing Tim Olson in the forum. Some limitations pretty much are just in the file saving and file exporting. So, you can import, edit, etc, but not save or save as or export.

If you think you will need file external references, then you'll need to start right at Shark LT as VC Pro hasn't got it.

If you have the disk space and the time, then you should trial ViaCAD Pro as well as Shark LT. Shark's regular price is ~ $649 and VCP's is ~ $249. Next time you're ready to spend ~ $250 on CAD software with 2D/3D, and solids features, then you should wait for Shark LT to drop back down to sub-$300.

I'm probably seeing coupons since I'm a paying/upgrading customer, but surely they know I cannot and will not buy every release of every product, hehehe. I have got only one body.
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