Transform 2D plan into 3D object

[Archive]

I am looking for a software that transforms a 2 dimensionnal hull's plan into a 3 dimensionnal object.
Are there add-ons for Catia,Autocad or ProEngineer ?

[Archive]

I hope there's something new to prove me wrong, but I've been looking for something like this for the past few years and have yet to find anything which would do the job.

[Jim Swarthout]

A mechanical engineering software package called "Cadkey", (www.cadkey.com), actually does a fantastic job of allowing the user to accomplish this very task at a reasonable cost. I have computer lofted numerous designs in 3-D using Cadkey with their accompanying product FastSurf. I also use SolidWorks, and Pro-Engineer on occasion for some of my 3-d boat design work, (www.woodnboat.com). I will be happy to elaborate further for anyone interested.

Best Regards,

Jim Swarthout

Hi there,

I am presently working on software which allows you to do just this, i.e. transform 2d lines plan into 3d hullform and obtain hydrostatics.

I have written a free utility which allows a user to scan in a lines plan and then trace outline of a section to scale. This can then be exported as an ascii or dxf file.

This utility complements the Hydro package I am working on and so between them provides a full solution to your needs.

Please feel free to check out my website at www.naval-architecture.co.uk.

John A. MacSween
www.naval-architecture.co.uk

Hi Jim,

I’ve read a little bit about all three of the programs you mentioned, but I’ve never seen any of the three in action - just Autocad and demos for the yacht design programs like Prolines and Maxsurf.

I would love it if you could elaborate further about methods for going quickly from 2d drawings to 3d models in CadKey, or the others too, if you don’t mind sharing your experience.

Let’s say I have similar 2-d information as you show on your website for your Hurricane Pass design (sheet 1 - transom, plan, profile, basic keel, chine, and deck lines, etc.) In CadKey could I generate a quick 3d model from this? Is there a way to link the two 2d chine lines (plan, profile) to generate a 3d curve, or to link the plan and profile and transom 2d lines to generate a quick surface model? Can this be refined later by adding section detail, for example, to alter the curve of the bottom forward? Or would I have to draw the 2d sections by hand first and then go to 3d?

You have a great website by the way – I just took a quick look at one of the designs and am impressed, but I’ll be sure to visit again later tonight when I have mote time to look at your designs in leisure.

[Steve Hollister]

Hello From New Wave Systems,

For those interested in inputting 2D lines drawings and offsets tables into a 3D CAD program, I have posted an article I wrote in our Technical Articles section at www.newavesys.com. The article is called "Reverse Engineering 3D Computer Hull Shapes From 2D Lines Drawings and Offsets Tables". It also refers to two other articles I wrote in the "Tutorials" section of our "sister" web site at www.pilot3d.com. One of the other two articles is on the general process of reverse engineering. The second of the two articles shows an example of using a Romer digitizing arm to digitize a portion of a damaged ship's hull and how the data was converted to a 3D surface model and then finally developed into a 2D flat pattern.

If you have any questions, you can contact me at shollist@newavesys.com.

Steve Hollister

Gentlemen,

Ive successfully completed more than a hundred 3d models of boats from 2d plans and hand drawings.(thats my full time occupation)
If you havent got rhino yet.... well your just not with it.

Chris

Chris@3dvisual.com.au

[Stephen Ditmore]

On the subject of Rhino, I'd be interested in seeing a review comparing it to its competitors, specifically:
www.graphicmagic.com/Neoform/NFIndex.html
www.solidthinking.com (perhaps the closest competitor)
www.deskartes.com
www.cadlab.com/products/products_ts.htm
www.eovia.com
www.hash.com
www.ayam3d.org (free!)
as well as naval architecture/yacht design surface modeling packages, including Steve Hollister's ProSurf.

[Stephen Ditmore]

I see ownership of SolidThinking seems to be in flux.
I should also have included www.formZ.com

[Steve Hollister]

Hello From New Wave Systems,

Chris forgot to mention that he sells Rhino software, training, and support. He also forgot to mention that there is a world of difference between creating 3D models of hulls that look good versus creating 3D models of hulls that accurately match the 2D data. A key test is whether you can take the 3D model and use the geometry to make changes to part of the hull and create building templates that will match up to the original hull. I have used ProSurf over the last 15+ years to accurately recreate (loft) very many 3D hull shapes. It is not an easy process, since the 2D data is usually not very good. It takes a lot of judgement and good low level surface shaping tools.

OBVIOUSLY, I'm biased, so you can take my comments with a big grain of salt. Few use Rhino for hull creating, shaping and fairing. In fact, they say on their web site that ... "There's more to a boat than its hull". They even say that Rhino makes a great add-on to all of the specialized hull design software on the market. It is not that creating a hull shape cannot be done in Rhino, it is just that Rhino does not have the required low level surface shaping and fairing tools. You can display Gaussian curvature and Zebra stripes, but you don't have the tools to fix the problems. Sure, there are tools for smoothing surfaces, but it is usually done at the expense of detailed shape control. I remember learning to draft hulls using curves and long splines (battens). One way to smooth out bumps in the spline is to lift one of the "ducks" on the spline. This would relax the spline and smooth it out. It was drilled into our heads, however, not to let the spline design the boat. The same is true (perhaps worse) with NURB surface shaping software. The joke that is floating around is when you see a design shape on the computer, to ask the designer wether he(or she) designed the boat or did the computer design the boat.

I have a lot of respect for McNeel and their Rhino software and we have a lot of our customers that use ProSurf with Rhino. It makes a great combination. But times are changing. As I mentioned in another post, I think that the days of very high priced hull design and fairing software are over, unless it is targeted to just the very top end of the market. Just as Rhino is trying to attract customers from the marine design world (by including hydrostatics, although very limited in capability), ProSurf is evolving into a general-purpose trimmed NURB surface design program. In fact, we now have a general purpose NURB surface program called Pilot3D ($495), which is the same as ProSurf 3, but without the hydrostatics, stability, and resistance calculations. Pilot3D may not have all of the bells and whistles as Rhino, but it does give you edit points that lie on the NURB surface, dynamic curvature curve display on the NURB rows and columns, a fine-tune Move% command for fairing, allows editing of polysurfaces, optional geometric constraints - you can edit a trim curve, plate development and expansion, shelling of polysurfaces and much more. Don't get me wrong, Rhino and ProSurf are so inexpensive that you should buy them both and still save thousands of dollars over the other hull design and fairing software.

As for comparing NURB surface design software, even I would have a difficult time doing the job. Very generally, animators, artists, game developers use polygon or "subdivision" modelers like Maya or 3D Max, although some of these programs offer limited NURB surface design. These 3D objects generally are non-manufactured objects that don't require precise shape control or smoothness. Those that design real objects that consist of smooth surfaces and that have to be build precisely, tend to use NURB surface design software. This is a very simplistic view of the 3D world! Then, there are the solid modeling companies that are trying to improve their freeform 3D NURB surfacing tools to match the power of the stand-alone NURB surface modelers. Some programs look very nice, but are very complex and cost $10,000 - $20,000+++. At the lower end (<$2000, or so) for NURB surface design, there are Rhino, Pilot3D, Think3, SolidThinking, Amapi 3D, Neoform (which is the general purpose version of MaxSurf, but, I believe costs $2500), AeroHydro's Surface Works (which is the general purpose version of MultiSurf that is tied in with SolidWorks, but also costs $2500, I think). Some swear by solid modeling, but I don't yet see solid modelers eliminating the need for separate hull design and fairing software. In addition, there are times where the 3D model required for plate devlopment and templates do not match with the solid definition required by solid modelers.

Regards,
Steve Hollister

[Stephen Ditmore]

From what I've seen of Steve Hollister's work I agree that his software would be a good pick. He's being fussy on a couple of points though. Whether you need to be that fussy depends on what you're trying to do. If you want to reproduce precisely the lines of a master designer who has given you a lines drawing, then I'd largely concur with Hollister. But loftsmen have been "relaxing" battens on the loft floor for time immemorial. When designing on a computer I favor limiting the number of stations or "master curves" and allowing the computer to do what the computer's good at if you have that lattitude.

Generally I've approached this by either digitizing or inputting manually from a table of offsets the stem and stations 2, 4, 6, 8, and the transom, then "skinning" these sections. There are lot of little tricks to getting good results, but this general purpose procedure usually works unless the vessel has a parallel midbody or a bustle, step, or other abrupt feature in the fairbody, in which case the feature bust be delt with appropriately.

Some solid modelers including Pro/E allow you to establish links between the 2d drawings and the 3d model, which is nice for certain types of editing. It depends on what you're doing. I suspect that 2d -> 3d can be done in AutoCAD, but I'm not a fan of the way AutoCAD approaches 3d or complex surfaces. There are plenty of programs in which you could do it better and faster. I concur that CADKEY is a better choice than AutoCAD if you want to do it in a CAD program.

Besides Hollister you might want to talk to the people at Baseline Technology <http://www.basline.com/basline/>, especially if you decide you want to get final lofted lines from a Rhino model, which in my opinion is doable.

[Stephen Ditmore]

And now for a direct answer to the original question. If you have access to CATIA use that. There's no better surface modeler around. The only thing I'd imagine you might want to plug in is a digitizer or a scanner, but you might also take a look at http://www.eossystems.com/


file conversion notes:

For 3d file translation, try http://www.okino.com/

Also, Amapi at http://www.eovia.com/ supports a number of file formats.

For 2d graphics (raster/bimap) file translation, try http://www.equilibrium.com/products/...izer/index.jsp

These cater more to the 3D graphics industry than to modeling for CAD/CAM, so I don't know if they support formats like IGES & STEP.

[Stephen Ditmore]

For CAD/CAM file translation try http://www.xchangeworks.com/

[Jeff]

I suspect that 2d -> 3d can be done in AutoCAD, but I'm not a fan of the way AutoCAD approaches 3d or complex surfaces.

I've been using AutoCad since 1994 and I have to say that as far as 2d -> 3d for a boat hull, good luck. AutoCad has an excellent solid modeler for models made of composite simple shapes, extrusions, unions, and subtractions. And the drawing interface is great for 2d and 3d with keyboard input and autosnaps speeding up the process, great accuracy, quick dimensioning, and the ability to work in hidden or shaded views and orbit. But as far as the conversion and actual skinning, it just doesn't have any tools to automate the task at all - everything is one point at a time. And fairing with the built-in tools is a nightmare. (I know that you were going on the basis of reproducing an existing design exactly thus not requiring as much working with the 3d hull interactively, but I would still assume that some dimensions would have to be tweaked based on how fair the model looks, and for that Autocad is probably the least strong of all the choices.)

For CAD/CAM file translation try http://www.xchangeworks.com/

Thank you! Thank you! I was just searching for a free utility to get either IGES or STL files into AutoCad. Neat!

[Stephen Ditmore]

O.K. then, let me modify what I said about AutoCAD. I think it would be possible using Autodesk's Mechanical Desktop suite, which includes "AutoSurf". But this is overpriced software, and there are much better choices, as I said before, of which CADKEY is one. I'm not a fan of Autodesk software in general, and to some extent this even extends to 3D Studio (at one time AutoDesk, now spun off to a separate company).