T-Splines in Yacht Design

[yipster]

have to disagree Grant Nelson, welcome to the forum Gerard and thanks for posting
for months allready i'm planning updating to rhino 4 and more and like to try someday soon
did not know about Simonsdochter Hasselaer but now i do
i prefered the rough original sketch better than the glossy sloop like build but thats me
albatros project is intriquing as well and your even testing, thats cool

[gerardpetersen]

Originally Posted by Grant Nelson

alas, just a marketing trick to get you to sign up for a course... no price given..

We're one of the first who invested significant time in modeling ship hulls with T-Splines and we'd like to share that with this community. And yes RhinoCentre is world wide leading with expertise in how to apply Rhino and plug-ins in the marine industry. We invest in knowledge which has to be paid back by offering training to people who understand that. Some of our valuable knowledge is shared for free via the Rhino Report Blog.

Gerard Petersen

[gerardpetersen]

Originally Posted by yipster

have to disagree Grant Nelson, welcome to the forum Gerard and thanks for posting
for months allready i'm planning updating to rhino 4 and more and like to try someday soon
did not know about Simonsdochter Hasselaer but now i do
i prefered the rough original sketch better than the glossy sloop like build but thats me
albatros project is intriquing as well and your even testing, thats cool

Thanks Yipster, you're welcome.

Gerard

[Grant Nelson]

Ok, OK, I can not disagree really, if I was in your shoes. I guess I am just disappointed that the T-spine guys themselves, who show a nice yacht on some of their web pages, and suggested T-splines are good for yacht design, including co-marketing with ORCA3D, have never answered any query about just how to apply their tool to hull design, or other shapes that require some specific dimensions, or smoothing control over a particular length that might include any number of verticies...

Additionally, when you said the link went to an article about using T-splines for this purpose, you can not deny that it was not an article, but simply a features list, which is ' sales ' material in my eyes.

Lastly, the video, which claims to be about 'modeling hulls, was in fact only about models already made with ORCA3D and T-splines, and if I understand it right, the basic hull is still made in ORCA3D and then the features added on with TSplines...

And that gets me back to the fact that no one has yet to show you can model a hull using Tsplines, let alone modify a basic hull while retaining fairness (thus not just adding appendages)... I guess until someone shows its possible, I will continue to remain disappointed... but that's just me I guess..

What you are doing is fine by me, and is surely useful for the industry, and deserves to be offered at a price, but it just was not what I expected. I do hope you will continue and someday make me happy too! And do not get me wrong, some great things come out of your factory, and do hope to meet you all someday... maybe at METS this year...

Cheers,

Grant

[yipster]

Grant Nelson, here some tutorials http://www.google.nl/search?hl=en&so...nes+t&gs_rfai=
and Peter, actually pretty original lines on your kenau but that big flag makes it a sailboat or gives drag

[Grant Nelson]

Thanks Yipster, but there is nothing about modeling a hull there, at least that I could find.

See my last post and the one from June 5th.

Maybe its just not possible, and T-splines is more for local, more free form appendages and non-hull shapes...

[yipster]

we can check the manual and give it a free try with the download http://www.tsplines.com/install
the dolphin sample is drawn in T-splines i belive, optimising and detailing rhino are the strong points i think but have to try

edit: gave it a try and altho not a hull, looks more like a dent in butter, here my first T-spline babystep but i'm reading up

[msederberg]

I'm sorry, indeed, I hadn't turned on email notifications for replies and forgot to bookmark this site. Thankfully a user pointed me back to here today. BTW, feel free to post questions any time on our forum and we'll get to them right away, tsplines.com/forum, though I'll also keep this site bookmarked now.

More responses soon...

Originally Posted by Grant Nelson

So, I guess Matt of T-Splines came, gave one post, and went.

I would really like to have seen that tutorial for uses of T-splines for yacht design, in particular hulls... if it would make shaping and fairing any hull easier, it would be an instant hit in the Yacht Design market..

[msederberg]

T-Splines have similarities to subdivision surfaces in that they can have an arbitrary, non-rectangular topology.

The main difference between T-Splines and subds is that T-Splines are a mathematically smooth surface and compatible with NURBS.

You can convert and degree-3, untrimmed NURBS surface exactly to T-Splines. You can convert any T-spline surface exactly to NURBS patches.

Also, T-Splines, unlike subds and nurbs, allow for local detail, useful for disappearing chines, etc.

Originally Posted by bearflag

Anyone know if there is any difference between t-splines and subdivision surfaces in almost any pro-3d application (non engineering)???

And are t-splines class-a surfaces and well defined in other programs?

I like rhino, and I used to use it, quite a bit, but its lack of parametrics and history seems limiting.

But I can usually bash stuff out in rhino way faster than Catia, Pro-E, or NX

[msederberg]

Regarding the lack of hull tutorials in T-Splines...

Just over the past few weeks I've been talking with more designers about marine design and we've been reviewing which significant contributions T-Splines makes to marine design. Kudos to Gerard for putting his class together. We'll also take this reminder as an excuse to revisit the need to get some hull tutorials on our website.

Thanks,
Matt

Originally Posted by Grant Nelson

Ok, OK, I can not disagree really, if I was in your shoes. I guess I am just disappointed that the T-spine guys themselves, who show a nice yacht on some of their web pages, and suggested T-splines are good for yacht design, including co-marketing with ORCA3D, have never answered any query about just how to apply their tool to hull design, or other shapes that require some specific dimensions, or smoothing control over a particular length that might include any number of verticies...

Additionally, when you said the link went to an article about using T-splines for this purpose, you can not deny that it was not an article, but simply a features list, which is ' sales ' material in my eyes.

Lastly, the video, which claims to be about 'modeling hulls, was in fact only about models already made with ORCA3D and T-splines, and if I understand it right, the basic hull is still made in ORCA3D and then the features added on with TSplines...

And that gets me back to the fact that no one has yet to show you can model a hull using Tsplines, let alone modify a basic hull while retaining fairness (thus not just adding appendages)... I guess until someone shows its possible, I will continue to remain disappointed... but that's just me I guess..

What you are doing is fine by me, and is surely useful for the industry, and deserves to be offered at a price, but it just was not what I expected. I do hope you will continue and someday make me happy too! And do not get me wrong, some great things come out of your factory, and do hope to meet you all someday... maybe at METS this year...

Cheers,

Grant

[Grant Nelson]

Matt,
Happy to see you back! And glad to hear you are working out how to demonstrate the roles T-splines can play in yacht design. I really am interested, as it seems to me there is great potential for this to be a tool for tuning the basic hull too. Even if its not possible now, probably a few simple command tools in regard to the distance of influence of a change and some fariness control over that distance will probably make it possible. Naturally the guys at ORCA3D will be a could partner in deciding what would work best...
Cheers,
Grant

[pavel915]

I really appreciate the hard work done by Mr. Gerad Petersen who let us know many hull modeling methodology by this website, for free.
But there are many reasons for which people like me can not attend Gerad's Training now, I wish success of his training, but I request Matt to arrange some free webinars or tutorials for tspline in marine design.

[yipster]

i find T-splines very handy but do most drawings still in 3d max while rhino does seem more appropriate for me to work with and it seems not so hard to learn
a hull almost cant be made simpler with any other program

got this good follow-up email on my T-splines download mentioning its best used with rhino not as standalone, thanks for the inf and back to study

Hopefully, over the past couple weeks, you have had some success modeling your first object with T-Splines.

At this point, customers often get excited about this new way of making models, and ask us how to make their entire model in T-Splines.

We actually do NOT recommend using T-Splines as your solitary tool for most production models.

That's not necessary.

T-Splines fits so nicely into Rhino that we hope you'll take advantage of Rhino tools to make your life easier.

We just want T-Splines to be the tool that dramatically speeds up the organic or conceptual part of your design process.

For an insightful look into how to successfully use both T-Splines and Rhino in your design process, read The right tool for the job by Kyle Houchens.

Also, you may find this review of T-Splines for Rhino by Develop3D helpful as you're getting started with T-Splines.


Sincerely,
Joe

P.S. If you have successfully made your first T-Splines model, please consider sharing it with us on facebook or our forum!

[daiquiri]

I am re-opening this old thread to share a link to this amazing video, which shows a tremendous potential T-splines have for industrial design in general, and for some aspects of yacht design: http://youtu.be/vLuJYL6xvv0
From 2D rough sketch to a very complex 3D shape in less than 40 minutes - including the time spent for talking and explaining stuff!!