swap CAD FOR CAD HELP

Originally Posted by nero

Looked at your gallery again. Are you building all your boats out of aluminum? Do you design the hull shape? In your gallery you show a bit of sheet metal work. Do you cut from numeric or maker patterns?

hullo nero,
so sorry again for late reply
I use various designers and sometimes a qualified navel arch. most designers are not qualified, as such, but turn out fine products
To date none on the compound skinnned yachts I have built have been designed in CAD, although the one in the gallery was converted using autoship, so I did not need to loft on my knees for 100hours. Autoship and Maxsurf seem to be able to unwrap compound shape well BUT so far I,ve been scared to have a designer unwrap and design the plate system for me because being designers and office wallahs(er um) they dont understand the need to not butt up tight, in other words when one plate run is finished, the next plate run needs a gap, to allow for the pinch when tacking starts, compound this error by five and the last run will be too wide Also they need to be told exactly how the joint(deck to topside run is deigned etc) and if you dont sit over them you end up in the crap big time. these are just 2 small examples.

But soon I will take the leap, i see much time saved, on the other hand one NEEDS to draw the body plan full size on the floor to assemble the componants, Beam, side t bars, floors, brackets etc, there are NO shortcuts in boatbuilding, yes quicker methods but no shortcuts One still need to draw in the profile, keel centreline bar, mast step etc full size or if those componants are precut then you still need the drawing on the floor to fabricate, mark on the stations and a couple of waterlines
So many engineering firms have started boatbuilding since the cad came along, result is often a mess, boatbuilding is still art and science, still needs an apprenticeship
i,m at present writing a book on the practical hands on approach, descibing exactly how and where to stertch , form, plates, welding, the whole bit. Although a cpuple of men who used to work for me and who are now very successfull builders, tell me that Maxsurf WILL tell where to stretch and where to form!!
I downloaded FREESHIP a design programme , it IS free

Originally Posted by Gilbert

If you haven't tried FREE!ship maybe you should give it a try. www.freeship.org

thanks I just found freeship

[bhnautika]

Lazeyjack Have a look at Xcad http://www.xcad-oz.com/5.0.html, they are based in Brisbane. They are very helpful and the programme has a good user interface with 2D and 3D. They have add-ons for CNC and milling.

[ludesign]

Originally Posted by lazeyjack

hullo nero,
so sorry again for late reply
i,m at present writing a book on the practical hands on approach, descibing exactly how and where to stertch , form, plates, welding, the whole bit. Although a cpuple of men who used to work for me and who are now very successfull builders, tell me that Maxsurf WILL tell where to stretch and where to form!!

TouchCAD comes with built in support for stretch unfold calculations, and where you can analyze where the mess occurs, how much it is, and balance it parametrically. You can also split shapes parametrically in direction and resolution, or create unfolds being in between straight and stretch unfolds, all of course parametric. TouchCAD is also a true five dimensional program with dynamic links between the 3D panels and the unfolded panels, so any updates in 3D is instantly seen in the Unfold view. You can even select any number of control points in any number of panels and nudge them with the arrow keys in the Unfold view and instantly see the result. Great for optimizing the unfolds for production. You can also generate a cut layout directly in the integrated nesting guide area, still of course without loosing the dynamic link to the 3D model. If you need overlaps, you simply add them parametrically and individually for each object and object side. TouchCAD also supports direct export to most commonly used cutting systems as well as automatic coordinate measurements for each panel.

ok, but you assume I even know a small piece of your language, and I dont)and neither do I see anywhere to learn this lingo, the tutes dont help, and there are no schools here abouts
say I start Freeship, I type in principle dimensions, ,
I then get to a round bilge hull
I want two chine yacht, what do I do next?
I,m really after a hull like the Ovni 39

[marshmat]

I grew up with CAD and I still find it insanely frustrating at times.
Two things I strongly advise:
1) Use the right tool for the job. Don't try to do hull lines in SolidEdge; don't ask Rhino to produce 2D drawings. Each program is good at one type of work; none are good at everything. Between Rhino or Freeship (surfaces like hulls), AutoCAD (wireframe and line detail drawings) and SolidEdge (stuff that gets milled/cast from metal), I have all my modelling needs more than covered. You may choose different programs, but the key is to pick programs that are suitable for what you do.
2) Patience. Start with basic tutorials. Even AutoCAD (which, imho, is a bloated cumbersome pain in the rear to learn, despite its obvious capabilities) can be learned if you start simple. Only try to learn one at a time- spend a few weeks on Rhino, working through its manual and tutorials, and don't touch AutoCAD or Solidworks while you're at it.

[marshmat]

In Freeship, you get your shape by dragging or nudging (select, then Alt & ArrowKeys) the points on the grid around the hull. To make a hard chine or knuckle, select the edges you want sharp and click Edge > Crease. Freeship's PDF manual is quite good if you have the time to look it over.
The control-point grid in Freeship, although it's mathematically very different from Rhino's, has essentially the same effect. You drag the points to shape the surface.

[raw]

Lazyjack,

Reading this it looks like you need to walk before you can run. I suggest that you drop all your programs initially except AutoCad. In your area, (yes I know where your yacht pics were taken - GC) it is standard. Start in 2D by drawing some object you have that can be measured and drawn at the computer as you would on a drawing board. Rectangular shaped is better. Suggest perhaps your office floorplan or a bracket of some kind. Then find something with curves. Don't forget to dimension it properly. This practice will form the basis of any future work, since it is necessary to document your work and convey the information.

Once you can handle the 2d, then look into the 3d and analysis programs.

2D AutoCad, will be the standard marine industry format will be with us for a long time. I transfer data all the time between clients, and rarely is anything else asked for.

[Bruce Taylor]

I want two chine yacht, what do I do next?

"Edges" (the straight lines connecting points in the "control mesh") can be either "creased" or "uncreased." Hard chines are "creases," and will show up as bright red lines.

As you know, when you start a new hull (by clicking File --> New) you are given a round-bilged hull to work with (only the outside edges of the half-hull are "creased"). To convert a soft edge into a hard chine, select an edge (simply click on a line in the control mesh) and then click Edge --> Crease. Now, drag the control points into place, and there's your chine.

[QUOTE=
thanks Matt
Why dont I just pay you to do the job!!

thanks
yes boat was there, now in Gladstone, have to go up and prep her for salem The construction photos wereat my yard in NZ
l really think I have no hope with Auto Cad,
I,m starting to make tiny progress with Freeship, I,ve not tried the others for ages freeship has many easier ways of doiing things compared maxsurf
keep in touch value feedbank
Stu
tried a personal message

[raw]

Stu,

I assume it was me you tried to pm. Please keep trying. It appears that private messages are disabled on my account. I emailed the powers that be here about it so hopefully it is sorted soon.