SolidWorks Center Console

[sweetwater]

Hi Guys, I'm new to the forum and wanted to post a center console design I constructed in SolidWorks. I see that the majority of the members prefer Rhino for hull modeling but after using Solidworks for 6 years I have found that it is just a capable as Rhino (provided you learn some tricks in Solidworks) and gives really good mass properties and CG because of its ability to work with non-homogenous materials (FRP) as well as being able to import to COSMOS FEA and flow analysis packages.

Anyways, the design is a 32'7" LOA CC with a 23° Deadrise. I haven't added the strakes yet but I'm sure you can get the picture. Any input is more than welcome.

[alidesigner]

I have been using solidworks and would NOT recommend it.

Yes its a great modeller and you can do anything with it but every release for the last 5 years has been full of bugs.

Incorrect mass props output, incorrect drawing view updates and incorrect BOM lists/balloons have been a bug in one form or another since 2005.

So great modeller but you cant rely on its output which can lead to costly drawing errors.

If you have been using 2009 Sp0, Sp1 or Sp2 you better upgrade to sp2.1 and go back and check all of your drawings. In some cases, views and dimensions were not updating after model changes. The only way to find out is to check them all.

I will be switching to Inventor. Same capability (more in some areas) but seems more reliable.

[kite]

Yes, a good rule is to not _ever_ touch work-related or important files with a Sp 0.x version of Solidworks!
However, I find it very capable and trustable in most aspects, and the amount of bugs is not larger than in any other high-end software.
It is though, as always, important to follow the recommendations for drivers and hardware.

I've been doing my living as a freelance designer for a few years now, mainly delivering files for production from my Solidworks suite (.stl, .step, and drawings).
I like it, and it serves me and my customers fine.

Surface modeling is not that hard once one master the spline-handling in SW and it does hulls well. The capability to deliver curvature-continuous surfaces (C2) makes them beautiful.

[Guest62110524]

so kite, could you double check a developed surface that came from say Rhino 4 or maxsurf, against SW?

[kite]

If I understand you correct - Nope, SW don't have develop-capability.
Rhino don't do them either from what I have seen, even though a Rhino-4 plug is claiming to do so. Rhino 3 had some, that is "gone" today in Rhino 4, I think the name was ~"Expander". Cant find it anywhere.

I think Icem-Surf do it good, but I didn't like the license-offer I had from their sale-guys
Might turn up in Catia in the future, since Dassault bought Icem a while ago.
Catia is more bang for the buck, and would do a nice package if it had Icem's capabilities.
One can add in Aerohydro's Multisurf or Surfaceworks to get some support for this, but I guess I never will do any other hulls than composite ones.

Do you do alot of steel-hulls? In Rhino?
How do you do the FEM-calc?

[Guest62110524]

Originally Posted by kite

If I understand you correct - Nope, SW don't have develop-capability.
Rhino don't do them either from what I have seen, even though a Rhino-4 plug is claiming to do so. Rhino 3 had some, that is "gone" today in Rhino 4, I think the name was ~"Expander". Cant find it anywhere.

I think Icem-Surf do it good, but I didn't like the license-offer I had from their sale-guys
Might turn up in Catia in the future, since Dassault bought Icem a while ago.
Catia is more bang for the buck, and would do a nice package if it had Icem's capabilities.
One can add in Aerohydro's Multisurf or Surfaceworks to get some support for this, but I guess I never will do any other hulls than composite ones.

Do you do alot of steel-hulls? In Rhino?
How do you do the FEM-calc?

rhino 4 does develope surfaces , even ones that are slighlty compound, I have checked the accuracy alongside maxsurf and it is spot in
Nope I dabble, i do not know what FEM means even I know very little, except I do know maxsurf is pretty good with most compound
Bos and Carr told me that it would not develope the bow of that mussel harvester you see in my website

[alidesigner]

I agree that SP0 is always risky but the problems I refer to existed all the way into SP2.0. But if you log into your account and read the fixed bugs list you will see many dangerous bugs. eg 2008 had a mass props bug that wasnt found until SP4.

Kite - you can trick solidworks (and the others) to flatten any shape that has single curvature. Just make sure your part has 1 linear edge, convert it to sheet metal and it will flatten. Wont work for compound curvature though.

Whoosh - be carefull with Rhino developments. Just because the software will flatten a part doest mean it will be buildable. It depends on the strain in the plate. Workshop gives this as a plot and as % values. See warning at bottom of this page http://www.rhino3d.com/4/help/comman...ollsurface.htm

If the plate has a strain of say 10%, then even though workshop will show the same shape as Rhino and it all looks ok, if it has this much strain then it wont pull up properly. I only ever trust workshop for plate development because I can check the strain plots.

For FEA I use Nastran with FEMAP.

[Ad Hoc]

alidesigner
as you know i use cosmos for FEA. I never use imported surfaces/models, i always generate them manually. This way i can control the mesh and the end result.

As for hull modelling etc...i have paramarine. It is seriously sophisticated, their new hull model is a quantum leap above max-surf et al. Makes them look like blocks of stone and chisel!..problem is, i never have enough time to explore it properly.

[kite]

alidesigner - Oh, I didn't understand that it was 2D we were talking, I were referring to 3D shape, bends in both directions.

Whoosh - Well then, 2D folding/unfolding is a no-brainer in SW, and SW also gives conic shapes (with lofted bends). Even produceable
And I have been taking care of Rhino files a number of times, so I know that it can bring a lot of cost for the customers trusting in designers delivering production files from it. Not saying this is always the case, but I make some cash out of the fact that it do happen.

[Guest62110524]

I never pull plates anyways, if you look at our river boat you can see the bows come in hard and fast, in 8mm plate they need forming, even in 3 or 4 I would form, Yes I see those lines on workshop, it is where I would form anyways
Without being a smart ass, I have so much experience stretching and forming that I dont need workshop, but will try it anyways, it has great reports, I would love to hear of other builders who use it
what I think I will do, is develope, form, BEFORE I form I will mark the cut lines, then put the plate on mylar film, then after formingI (simple) not compound, lay the mylar back down and check the fit, obviously IF you do not form EXACTLY as workshop says then it will not fit, in other words if you cut, then form , say the chine line in this case will be either higher or lower than it should be Bos and carr in NZ cut the plates exactly then stretch form and the damned things fit EXACTLY In saying this if you have lots plate runs as in round yacht then you can spring the plate lines to match the next seam down or above
Alloy is an amazing material really forgiving even a big and wide plate once formed can me made to fit its line But hey thanks you guys

[Guest62110524]

bos carr have plotter, they have some very good machines they built themselves to work plate, here you can see building in modules
I have to say I have never seen such fair boats, and I have seen many yards
http://www.bosandcarrboatbuilding.co.nz/contact.html

[Ad Hoc]

Whoosh
"...I dont need workshop.."
These types of program have replaced the traditional mould loft and other "normal shipyard" skills. So much so that some small boat builders do not have the skills to roll/form/bend plate correctly. The skill has been lost, since this was part of the shipyard function...well, was in the yards i trained at in the UK many years ago. These 'newer' yards want an idiot proof construction to bridge the huge gap in their lack of understanding, they just want a simple jigsaw puzzle and complain when it doesn't fit, computer says so type of attitude!

Workshop et al, just allows small yards even large yards to minimise their wastage and also produce plate in kit form. It also allows 'designers' to calculate the amount of plate require for a job without ever having to leave the office. Since most 'designers' today have never or very rarely set foot in a shipyard. As such these 'designers' need some frame of reference that their hull shape and hence plate can be formed. If the program tells them it is ok..they all assume it is ok..they have no shipyard fabrication background as a foundation to question the output from the software.

Some need the software and some don't....

[scuzmar]

Sweetwater,
I like your boat design. I have to make a presentation and would like to use your 3D images. Would you be willing to help me out. I am currently making some hand sketches right now of a generic boat but your images would be really cool. I just need the top, front, sides, back, and a cut out through the middle. Please send me an email if this would be possible.
Thanks
Samy

[peter radclyffe]

Originally Posted by alidesigner

I have been using solidworks and would NOT recommend it.

Yes its a great modeller and you can do anything with it but every release for the last 5 years has been full of bugs.

Incorrect mass props output, incorrect drawing view updates and incorrect BOM lists/balloons have been a bug in one form or another since 2005.

So great modeller but you cant rely on its output which can lead to costly drawing errors.

If you have been using 2009 Sp0, Sp1 or Sp2 you better upgrade to sp2.1 and go back and check all of your drawings. In some cases, views and dimensions were not updating after model changes. The only way to find out is to check them all.

I will be switching to Inventor. Same capability (more in some areas) but seems more reliable.

I want to learn to use cad hull programs, & I'd heard autocad is good, but after seeing their arrogant, unprofessional, whineing, egocentric ,childish, presenter, it's put me off, however when i see solidworks presentation, it's clear, calm, professional, educational, & attractive to learn from

[alidesigner]

Dont judge software by the person presenting it, judge it by what it can and cant do.

Do a google search on solidworks bugs and see for yourself.

Here's a link to get you started

http://www.dezignstuff.com/blog/?p=613


If you just want to learn 3D, start with Alibre. Its free.
www.alibre.com