Sipbuilder Moving to 3D

[stephen gibson]

I am after software advice as to which direction to. we are looking at either shipconstructor or autoship for the structure and then Inventor or solidworks for the plant, pipework and fitout

what do others use? 20m patrol boats 60m mega yachts or 120m ferrys

[Crag Cay]

Hi Stephen and welcome to the forum.

Surely 'Shipconstructor' can handle pipework? And the electrical module is in development.

Can you be a bit more specific about exactly what you would like to be able to do in so we can perhaps suggest something applicable?

[stephen gibson]

Thanks for the reply,

shipconstructor looks expensive for larger vessels and doesnt appear to do fitout such as cabinets etc. Ideally we would like to use just 1 software to do everything but cant find it... we are planning to do all of the structure with a ship specific software, that will give us our cutting lists, flat patterns etc, then import it into a 3d modeller to do everything else.

[Crag Cay]

I think any solid modeller that will allow collaborative effort in projects as complex as your vessels, is going to be expensive in purchase, training and on going maintenance.

I work at the design end of the construction process with MaxSurf, but have noticed the increased use of Dassault products to compliment both Ship Constructor when working with metal boats and also as a stand alone with composite construction where its reliable component definition guarantees reliable interior and systems planning.

[Andrew Mason]

Stephen

if you're building any kind of metal boat ShipConstructor is all you should require. ShipConstructor is both modular and scalable, it has modules for structure, piping, HVAC as well as outfitting. Each module has price levels based on the number of parts that can be used; you can start out with a low-cost module, and as your needs increase you can pay more and increase the number of parts the module can handle.

ShipConstructor works within AutoCAD and pieces of equipment such as cabinets (or engines, pumps, winches, anchors etc.) can be created with standard AutoCAD tools, so there should be no need for further solid modelling tools.

Hope this helps

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by Crag Cay

I think any solid modeller that will allow collaborative effort in projects as complex as your vessels, is going to be expensive in purchase, training and on going maintenance.

I work at the design end of the construction process with MaxSurf, but have noticed the increased use of Dassault products to compliment both Ship Constructor when working with metal boats and also as a stand alone with composite construction where its reliable component definition guarantees reliable interior and systems planning.

Grag
will solid works do all that?
like your post BD

[Raggi_Thor]

ShipConstructor is very efficient if you know some AutoCAD.
While many other solid modellers can do much of the same, they don't come with suggested setup or work flow or methodology.

[stephen gibson]

Im from an Inventor background and have done a few boats with this software. I have also done a lot of 3d AutoCAD on mega yachts but did not find it that easy, (back in 2001, the top of the range machines struggled with the size of models, this may be better now)

compared to inventor, (or other mid range 3d package) ship constructor and autocad look cumbersome, both in the modelling and navigating your way round the model.

we have ruled out high end packages such as Cadds5 and Catia because of the cost, and speaking to others, training and useability.

Ideally i would like to do just the hull and shell expansion with a ship package and everything else with Inventor, but its hard to convince others that this is the way to go...

[Crag Cay]

Speak to Andrew Mason (details above), as his program 'Workshop' might fit into the set up you suggest.

[stephen gibson]

i lived in fremantle for a bit, working for Austal ships. Ive been trying to catch my old boss to quiz him, but by the time I get to work in the UK hes on his way home in Oz. Ill try to get an email off to Mr Mason,

thanks

[Raggi_Thor]

Stephen, you don't need the part numbering and the database that come wth ShipConstructor?
I have sold Alibre+Rhino to some builders of smaller boats, 30 feet fishing boats.

[Arvy]

What about MasterSHIP, it does all construction, fairing, piping, HVAC, Electrical, numerical cutting code generation all from within AutoCad in a single package. It is holland based with support centers around the world.

Take a look at www.mastership.nl

Grtz,
Arvy

[Andrew Mason]

Stephen

To give you a bit of background regarding ShipConstructor, using the software is totally different to using native AutoCAD 3D, so don't judge Shipconstructor based on your previous experience.

Although programs such as Solidworks, CATIA and Inventor are seductive, the reality is that they don't have the specialist tools and shipbuilding oriented workflow that you require. If you were to use one of these programs you would find that you took significantly longer to create production output and using ShipConstructor.

Regarding Workshop, there is little or no overlap between Workshop and Shipconstructor. Workshop does preliminary structural design, allowing you to rapidly produce the major structural elements for a vessel in a parametric manner. Shipconstructor does detailed structural design and production output, so the two products are complementary rather than competitors.

[Raggi_Thor]

I strongly agree with Andrew Mason above.
I like Inventor and worked with it for five years, after 10 years of AutoCAD and Mechanical Desktop.
What you need is automation!
Mid range (and low cost :-) solid modelers may look great for simple tasks, but you will have to work out your own methodology, and they are often hard to automate.

[stephen gibson]

I hear what you guys are saying but im not sure i want to go back to the crappy graphics and poor performance.

I have done a lot of skeletal modelling with inventor and feel that the workflows i create will be better than the existing ones in shipconstructor, (taylored directly to our needs rather than a half hearted attempt to please everyone). except for the shell expansion, i think that i could do almost everything better and more efficiently.

at the end of the day, shipconstructor is just autocad programmed to do additional tasks. if the base program was better, (a real 3d modeller) then im sure there would be no contest.

sorry if this sound brash, but i have to go to a meeting tomorrow and justify reasons im including and discounting software, (with objections im sure from other members of the company).

i am thankful and appretiate everyones help