Sail Design?

[davef]

Sorry if this posting has been on here before. I tried searching on the word "sail" and understandably hit too many matches.

I am wondering if there are any available guidelines on sail design or affordable sail design software. I'm not looking for cutting edge design, just good solid design principles to yeild an acceptable sail design.

I've designed a 20 foot day sailer which is nearly ready for the rig. I used Larsson and Eliasson as my principle reference. All the design work was done in Pro/E and I'm fairly experienced at surface modeling if there are availble guidelines. My wife is an accomplised seamstress and I'd like to consider designing the sails (main and club footed jib - no Genoa or spin).

Will I save money or is this nuts??

Thanks in advance.

[ludesign]

Originally Posted by davef

Sorry if this posting has been on here before. I tried searching on the word "sail" and understandably hit too many matches.

I am wondering if there are any available guidelines on sail design or affordable sail design software. I'm not looking for cutting edge design, just good solid design principles to yield an acceptable sail design.

I've designed a 20 foot day sailer which is nearly ready for the rig. I used Larsson and Eliasson as my principle reference. All the design work was done in Pro/E and I'm fairly experienced at surface modeling if there are availble guidelines. My wife is an accomplised seamstress and I'd like to consider designing the sails (main and club footed jib - no Genoa or spin).

Will I save money or is this nuts??

Thanks in advance.

Probably better to buy it. I think Sail designing programs are fairly expensive and it takes experience to do it.

Though not really intended to be used for sail design, TouchCAD actually offers some help and sail makers are fairly common among TouchCAD users for a number of reasons.

One is that it combines free form modeling with parametric unfolding to allow you to optimize the use of material, to make sure that each sub-panel fits into the given material width, and to generate a cut layout, all without loosing the dynamic link to the 3D model.

The unfolding features also include parametric seam allowances, automatic panel numbering, alignment marks, automatic coordinate measurements, and ready for cutting direct export to many file formats commonly used by the cutting tables used by sail makers (DXF, Adobe Illustrator, HPGL (including custom object delimiters, VectorWorks (VectorScript), and Sails Science Plotmaker.

For manual plotting TouchCAD provides automatic cutting coordinates where each panel has it's own origin. The enclosed image shows a typical output. You basically need a flat area and something to measure with.

The upcoming TouchCAD 3.5 also allows direct import of sails from Sails Science Sailmaker. It is primarily intended to be used in combination with TouchCAD's new image unfolding technology to generate full scale, full color, pre-painted sails. You can virtually apply any any image applied to a sail and TouchCAD can handle HUGE images (20,000 x 10,000 pixel images is no problem). The enclosed example is a 59 square meter spinnaker with 40 panels, which took 2-1/2 minutes to apply, render and export it as 40 different images at 12 DPI (on big objects you tend to use smaller resolution to keep the file sizes at a reasonable level).

More info at www.touchcad.com

[duluthboats]

Go to the WoodenBoat forum and ask the same question. There is a sail maker who frequents that forum, (Todd Bradshaw) he has been very helpful to others with similar questions.

Gary

[SailDesign]

You called?

[Sean Herron]

Hello...

OK so I am just now mucking about in Rhino - stopped modelling - started to play - saved everything off...

Your SCA-19 - how did you lay on a texture map such that you had longitudinal bootstripes and waterlines in the render...

If too involved dont bother - I learn quick just mucking around on my own - just thought you may be able to point me in some correct directions...

Just got Rhino - love it...

Thanks in advance...

SH.

[SailDesign]

Sean,
Create your hull, draw waterline and boot-tops in profile view. Extrude said waterlines and boot-tops in plane, and split hull with said surfaces. Colour in resulting parts with any colour your little heart desires (as long as it's traditional )
DO NOT, repeat DO NOT perform the above-mentioned magic without copying an uncut hull to a seperate layer where you can bring it back from to preform the same operation again when it doesn't look right (or you have decided to change the hull for some reason.

Steve

[Sean Herron]

Thanks...

Seemed the only resonable route - my wife said 'just chop it into slices and do what you are doing' - I told her to stop being such a smartie wife...

OK thanks again....

SH.

[SailDesign]

I told her to stop being such a smartie wife...

Now you know why you married her. Question remains - why did she marry you?

Steve

[Tim B]

I would guess that it was either for the convenience that an Engineer brings (Painting houses, DIY, etc.) or she liked the idea of living with a Yacht Designer. I hope for your sake it was the former... They don't stick around for long otherwise in my experience (though I admit I have limited experience in such a matter, lol).

Sorry I've not been too active recently, I think I'm getting back into it now.

Cheers,

Tim B.

[SailDesign]

I dunno, Tim, I've had mine (wife, that is) for 29 years now, and she shows no signs of leaving this yacht designer.

Steve

[Tim B]

See part A!!! Nah, just kidding, my ex-girlfreind just left me for another guy (who's liable to earn more) so I'm not too convinced at present. Having said that, I don't think he'll last long, having met him. anyway, back to the subject...

The alternative way (if the surface is reasonably flat is to use a bitmap rendered on the surface. There is an object property that lets you use a bitmap as a texture. the render below uses this technique with some success.

Hope this helps (sorry for going off topic)

Tim B.

[JotM]

Originally Posted by davef

I am wondering if there are any available guidelines on sail design or affordable sail design software. I'm not looking for cutting edge design, just good solid design principles to yield an acceptable sail design.

There seems to be: Sailcut CAD.

It was made by the same people that were behind Carene, it looks like it hasn't been under active development for even a longer time than this thread is old and still I have to really try it out myself, but the download links on the product page of the author are still in working order. Mind you, the links to the direct download from this page, not the links to Sourceforge, those are broken. You will end up on a page showing a database error.

Cheers

[Petros]

Originally Posted by davef

I am wondering if there are any available guidelines on sail design or affordable sail design software.

Will I save money or is this nuts??

Get the book "Sail makers Apprentice" It has basic guild lines for everything I think you will need. An excellent one volume resource for exactly this toppic.

Also there is some freeware sail design softerware on the web, I think I have seen it from a website that sells sail cloth and fittings. Do some google searches.

Do not do it to save money, if your time has any value than there is no savings. If you are doing it for the fun, challange and pleasure of learning new skills and do not mind the amount of time it takes (i.e. an expensive hobby), than go for it. It will cost you less money to make your own sail.

There are some sail companies that will cut you "kits" for the size sail you want, and you just sew it yourself. This is an excellent way to strart. Laying out very large sheets of fabric at home, and trying to make long smooth curved cuts in it not as easy as you might think.

If you wanted to save money, why are you building a boat?

Have fun, good luck.

[Martijn_vE]

Originally Posted by JotM

Mind you, the links to the direct download from this page, not the links to Sourceforge, those are broken. You will end up on a page showing a database error.
Cheers

Still available at sourceforge using the following link http://sourceforge.net/projects/sailcut/

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by ludesign

TouchCAD actually offers some help
...
More info at www.touchcad.com

OMG, I've just seen the demo video. You have created a hull, rendered it and developped the surfaces in 3 minutes!!! I still can't believe it!