Rhino or TouchCAD?

[Deering]

I've been using Freeship for hull development and hydrostatics. Now I want to pull that hull into a design package for further refinement, cabin development, and interior details, and eventually hull frame & panel development.

I have two demo packages to play with - Rhino & TouchCAD. Which to use? I don't want to invest the time to learn both packages, or ANOTHER package if I don't have to.

Can anyone summarize the relative strengths & weaknesses of the two?

Thank you.

[CGN]

Rhino needs plug ins that cost the same (as rhino), for hydorstatics, and plate development, touchcad has all this features included.....the only diference i can tell between this 2 is cost and the number of export-import options on rhino.

I like rhino but if i didn't use files like iges or step...i'll be looking more towards touchcad.

happy new year

[Raggi_Thor]

I found Rhino easy to learn, maybe because it's a little like AutoCAD.
Maybe you don't need the plugins as you do the calculations in freeship?

[ludesign]

Originally Posted by CGN

Rhino needs plug ins that cost the same (as rhino), for hydorstatics, and plate development, touchcad has all this features included.....the only diference i can tell between this 2 is cost and the number of export-import options on rhino.

I like rhino but if i didn't use files like iges or step...i'll be looking more towards touchcad.

happy new year

It should be pointed out that Rhino with RhinoMarine and Expander costs more than twice as much as TouchCAD.

For about the same sum, or less, you can buy both TouchCAD and VectorWorks. TouchCAD exports NURBS surfaces as VectorWorks NURBS surfaces, and VectorWorks both imports and exports IGES and SAT files. With VectorWorks you get an excellent and easy to use general purpose solid modeler (I think it uses the same solid modeling engine as SolidWorks) and and excellent 2D drafting program too. Both these programs are cross platform and you can run them on either Mac or Windows.

[marshmat]

I'd add that converting FreeShip's SDS (subdivision surface) hulls to NURBS (a spline-based format) involves some horrendously disgusting math for the software to compute- I know of no way to make the conversion from one to the other accurately. The best luck I've had is to have Freeship make a DXF or OBJ mesh file and have Rhino make a polysurface from that- takes forever and the file's huge though. When Freeship gets IGES this should become a lot easier.
I found Rhino to be very intuitive and easy to learn. It's quite a powerful program once you get some practice. I haven't used TouchCad and so can't speak to its utility.

[Deering]

Matt,

I am experiencing the joy of trying to convert from Freeship to Rhino or TouchCAD. I'm considering just redrawing the hull rather than trying to convert it into something Rhino or TC can use.

Does anyone have any other simple methods of doing that?

[Martijn_vE]

I'm currently working on the export of the surfaces from FREE!ship to IGES. The problem is that it results in a large amount of smaller patches which is undesirable if you want to edit the surfacesi in, say Rhino. I'm trying (partially successfull) to group the smaller patches into larger surfaces but I'm not yet fully satisfied with the results. So I'm not sure if the IGES export is integrated in the next FREE!ship release (in about a week) or the one after that (in about 5 to 6 weeks).

[marshmat]

I can't believe how fast Martijn works.... only a month since 2.2 and he's already about to release a new one! Wow....
Deering- If the hull is made from developable sections, it should be possible to have Freeship make any of the DXF files that include edges and chines- then import that to Rhino, rebuild or redraw those edges as faired curves, and sweep2 some straight lines along them to make the panels. If the hull's not developable, I've had pretty good luck (within about 3-4% by volume) with exporting either a DXF or OBJ file from Freeship at its highest resolution, then importing that to Rhino. The mesh is fine for renders but if you need a surface, then MeshToNurb is the only way I know to get it accurate- you get a 10,000-part polysurface filling a couple tens of megabytes. I've tried lofting from DXF station curves, but Rhino's algorithm ends up distorting high-curvature areas like the forefoot and stem.

[hydroptera]

I've used MaxSurf exclusively for 7 years and thought I was loyal to the program... until TouchCAD. I've also tried Rhino, and feel there is no comparison between it and TouchCAD. TouchCAD wins hands-down. If you're used to a modeling 'net' that's removed from the hull, it'll take a few minutes to learn how to use the control points and curves (or rulers) directly on the surface. You won't want to go back. The direct modeling is fantastic. Modeling is 10-20 times faster than with the removed net (just tried it with a strip canoe). The 'unfold' button allows you to instantly lay out flat panels for curved surfaces... a real bonus. I find the hydrostatics are quite basic in TouchCAD, but are adequate for most boats.

MaxSurf is very expensive, and when you add up all the bits needed for Rhino, TouchCAD comes out ahead, too.

Perhaps most importantly... the technical support in TouchCAD is the best I've ever experienced.... EVER! I wish I had this program 7 years ago.

Good luck!

LM

[Karl Wittnebel]

I'm quite impressed by TouchCAD. The rulers/control points take a bit of getting used to, but once acclimated to this method of laying things out it becomes very easy and I have to say almost addictive. I have not done any complicated work with it but for laying out hull lines it is simple and very effective. It is also great for unfolding shapes into 2d panels. The customer support is simply unparalleled, as stated above. I work on a Mac and was considering buying a PC to run SolidWorks or Rhino but now that I've worked with TouchCAD for awhile I can't think of a reason to buy the other two. A friend works in Rhino and the rendering there is a bit fancier, but I understand there are rendering options for TouchCAD that I have not explored. Having explored the options, I think it's hard to beat TouchCAD for the money, especially for an amateur like me.

[mkoeckri]

Hi Everybody,
There is no real comparison possible between Rhino and Touch Cad.
Rhino was developed for 3D design and rendering with all its extras and plug-ins. Touch Cad can't touch that yet and was possibly never intended to go that route anyway.

However, if it comes to unfolding and special designs as I use it (Card Borad Models etc.) TC is way more flexible. Especially because you can import background images or photgraphic images and scale them accordingly. As every program needs a bit of getting used to, I found TC easier to deal with for what I'm using it. It really all depends what you are using these programs for. These two, so differnt, design packages have their strengths and weaknesses. Rhino is massive, Touch Cad needs a bit more?

All the best

Michael

[Robert Miller]

My wish list:

• Both of these packages need to support the use of diagonals in producing lines to allow complete hull lines drawings, using similar work flow as in traditional hand drafting.

• Touchcad needs more extensive marine calculations.

• Rhino needs cross-platform compatibility, and a much more intuitive user interface for faster and easier arrival at desired result.

From use of demos only, I do much prefer TouchCad over Rhino. ... I find it so much easier to get things done in TouchCad. I have much to learn in either of these packages, but strongly lean toward TouchCad at this time.

Easier to use means increased productivity.

Robert

[nero]

Between version 3.0 and 3.5 TouchCad has flushed out a bit. The user interface is as stated above "adictive".

TouchCAD needs a 2D CAD program to produce finalized drawings. With Vectorworks the transfers are 100% accurate and straight forward. The render in TouchCAD is accurate and quick for helping to model/draw.

Would be nice to punch holes in the mesh.

[mkoeckri]

Hi Robert,
both programs are very powerful. I'm also still fiddling with TC to get the grasp of what it can do. I wish it would have more background features available, textures etc. But then, they can be created with Rhino, AutoCad, Micrographics Designer etc. and then imported as Front, Side or Top view background graphics. Unfortunately theses "surfaces" are not visible while you're working with the model as in Rhino. (at least what I've seen so far)

The nature of the beast is that we as users are usually only using the parts we need of any program and sometimes fall short in exploring and experimenting with what's available at our fingertips. This could reveal some surprises.

The TC tutorials are realy not bad and can point the user in the right direction. (all included on the CD, but also available on the TC server.) If it just weren't for "my short memory" I'd probably be more proficient by now, but there are only 24 hours in a day.

All the best

Michael

[mkoeckri]

Hello,
hmm... may be it is possible to create somesort of "Mini-Vectorworks" or package Vectorworks-Lite together with TC for a reasonable upgrade fee. ???

Michael