Rhino and analysis programs

[Andrew McD]

Hello everyone.

My name is Andrew. I am 100% new to this forum and this is my first post. It looks like there are a lot of knowledgeable folks on here so I'll take a shot with my question.

I enjoy designing boats in AutoCAD and Rhino3D. I have built and designed mostly Airboats as that is my specific interest. Airboats have flat bottom hulls and are often driven on very flat, smooth water. I have recently done a few new hull designs, some of which being step hulls, and I am looking for a program to do some analysis on the hulls before I actually produce them. Dose anyone know of any good programs for this? I want to track hydrostatics on the hull, be able to visualize how the hull will ride, and also see how the hull will react in the water with different speeds and wind conditions. I have read a few posts but none seemed to confident in the programs that were capable with Rhino.

Thanks in advance for any inputs!
Andrew

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by Andrew McD

Dose anyone know of any good programs for this? I want to track hydrostatics on the hull, be able to visualize how the hull will ride, and also see how the hull will react in the water with different speeds and wind conditions. I have read a few posts but none seemed to confident in the programs that were capable with Rhino.

Welcome, Andrew!

I doubt that there is a computer program in existence that will allow you to
do all those analyses and visualizations. If someone has cobbled together
all the necessary hydrostatic, hydrodynamic and aerodynamic components it
would be very expensive.

Leo.

[Andrew McD]

Thats what I was afraid of hearing... I dont even mind running a dedicated program for each piece of data and then combining the data my self. The best "visualization" program I have found is particle simulators like RealFlow... and thoughts on those types of programs? Also, any suggestions on how to go about analyzing the step hulls?
thanks!

[yipster]

Not to argue whats said but rhino does have a cfd plugin, saw it the other day, not sure if that one -forgot its name- has a free trial as most cfd programs have
count on weeks study just to find some handles before time or so runs out, also noticed great differences between various cfd progs, so shop around bfore instal
most I know of stepped hulls is from reading but gues lots of experience be best

[DCockey]

Orca3D is a plug-in for Rhino which does hydrostatic calculations and will also provide some performance estimates for conventional displacement and planing boats.

I had a look at the webpage for NextLimits, the creators of RealFlow, and found this description:

RealFlow™ is a unique fluids and body dynamics software package which allows you to simulate anything from a single drop of water to a massive tsunami crashing across a beach, sweeping debris in its wake.

RealFlow™ remains the definitive tool for the creation of flawlessly realistic simulations, and has been used to create some of the most ground-breaking visual effects ever seen, in movies like "Avatar", "District 9", "2012", "GI Joe", and "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button", as well as countless commercials, TV programs, and game cinematics.

They also market XFlow which is described as:

XFlow is a next generation CFD software system from Next Limit Technologies that uses a proprietary, particle-based, meshless approach which can easily handle traditionally complex problems.

For engineers and analysts who require quick and accurate feedback on flow, thermal, and acoustic behaviour, XFlow is a CFD software system that provides you with the ability to solve problems involving moving boundaries, free surface and fluid structure interaction on complex geometric domains.

It looks like XFlow is more appropriate for design analysis. http://www.nextlimit.com/products.php

Andrew, what is your background and experience with CFD?

[Leo Lazauskas]

Originally Posted by DCockey

They also market XFlow which is described as:

XFlow is a next generation CFD software system from Next Limit Technologies that uses a proprietary, particle-based, meshless approach which can easily handle traditionally complex problems.

For engineers and analysts who require quick and accurate feedback on flow, thermal, and acoustic behaviour, XFlow is a CFD software system that provides you with the ability to solve problems involving moving boundaries, free surface and fluid structure interaction on complex geometric domains.

It looks like XFlow is more appropriate for design analysis. http://www.nextlimit.com/products.php

Last I saw Xflow cost about 60-80,000 euros.
Many people have asked for examples of verification and validation but the
rep on the cfd-online forum says that they need to contact him so he can supply
examples. That sounds a bit cagey to me. If they had outstanding,
independent verification I suspect they would have them on their front page
surrounded with multiple exclamation marks!!!

There are some links to high-lift predictions using Xflow, but I don't know if
the experimental data was available and the program inputs were tweaked to
get good agreement.

It does make for beautiful pictures and videos though.

[Ad Hoc]

Originally Posted by Leo Lazauskas

If they had outstanding,
independent verification I suspect they would have them on their front page
surrounded with multiple exclamation marks!!!

Exactly!

Originally Posted by Leo Lazauskas

It does make for beautiful pictures and videos though.

Oh..that's ok then, must be good

[yipster]

Originally Posted by yipster

rhino does have a cfd plugin

few days back brushed up my favorites but checking now it might have been http://www.scan-and-solve.com/
not a CFD but FEA program, got to study harder and learn to keep my big mouth shut