Macintoshes and naval architects...

[Robert Miller]

TouchCad looks good...
How does one make this the basis of a complete solution for yacht design?
i.e. incorporate hydrostatics, stability, drag/velocity predictions, foils, construction, etc. ...?

Thanks.
Robert

[Felo]

Mac oriented, they do have windows version, i have seen it and just tried just a little, i'm a user of Prosurf and Rhino, and i do like touchcad i like the way it works the nurb surface and the way you can have a nice control of vertex, also the development process seems very robust, i'm not quite sure but i belive dosen't have a way to check cuvature of sections and surfaces, which in some ponit maybe not a big deal for other users, it performs basic stability and hydrostatics calculations, by far is not the full integrated solution for hull design and structural modeling, of course you can model everything on it, but is not defcar or seasolution or maxsurf suite that can have all integrated, but i think as a good contender for rhino, in my point of view needs some features that i belive most of use will enjoy to have. so, i think as hull design tool, works just fine and as an all around modeler including marine related features is there with the most used among most people in the forum i may said.

and dosen't have a nurb surface neutral format to export your surface, it will be done trough vectorworks, which for me is a feature that i will lke to see.

Merry christmas!

Originally posted by Felo
Mac oriented, they do have windows version, i have seen it and just tried just a little, i'm a user of Prosurf and Rhino, and i do like touchcad i like the way it works the nurb surface and the way you can have a nice control of vertex, also the development process seems very robust, i'm not quite sure but i belive dosen't have a way to check cuvature of sections and surfaces, which in some ponit maybe not a big deal for other users, it performs basic stability and hydrostatics calculations, by far is not the full integrated solution for hull design and structural modeling, of course you can model everything on it, but is not defcar or seasolution or maxsurf suite that can have all integrated, but i think as a good contender for rhino, in my point of view needs some features that i belive most of use will enjoy to have. so, i think as hull design tool, works just fine and as an all around modeler including marine related features is there with the most used among most people in the forum i may said.

and dosen't have a nurb surface neutral format to export your surface, it will be done trough vectorworks, which for me is a feature that i will lke to see.

Merry christmas!

TouchCAD is developed on Macs but the Windows version has exactly the same features and works in the same way. Besides a certain degree of Mac feel, it works just as well on Windows. Being based on the Mac culture is however not a bad thing in my opinion, as the Mac standard user interface is in reality the standard user interface of graphics programs. Programs like PhotoShop, Illustrator, etc all originate from the Mac world and are still close to the Mac feel even in their Windows versions.

The Mac and Windows versions of TouchCAD are also file compatible.

TouchCAD does have a way to check the curve of sections. You can even nudge/experiment with the model shape and the just clock on the update button in the marine calcuation palette to see what happened. It's therefore easy to find a good balance in the hull and it's also very easy to compare it to the center of gravity. Each object has it's own weight / Weight per surface area property.

There will be more marine calculation tools in the next major update and the same applies for IGES communication. The NURBS communication through VectorWorks works very well though it would perhaps be better to have a direct communication.

VectrWorks is however not a bad choice for doing the general purpose drawing stuff. I personally prefer much VectorWorks over for example AutoCAD LT as it provides good combination of fairly powerful set of solid modeling tools with excellent and easy to use 2D drafting tools. Having an intermediate modeling tool such as Rhino is simply not neded.

/Claes

Hi Claes

Is great to hear your comments and learn more about touchcad, i just want to ask if is possibel to check the curvature of the sections, buttocks etc.. (e.g. checking the curvature of a chine using a curvature graph) or is any way available to perform this check in touchcad?, i will download the demo and check it out.

Thanks

Originally posted by Guest
Hi Claes

Is great to hear your comments and learn more about touchcad, i just want to ask if is possibel to check the curvature of the sections, buttocks etc.. (e.g. checking the curvature of a chine using a curvature graph) or is any way available to perform this check in touchcad?, i will download the demo and check it out.

Thanks

Besides the usual cross sectioning things found in most hull fairing programs and that can be set to almost any resolution it still lacks a detailed curve analyzing tool, but it is in the plans too. Unlike most other programs though, you can set the mesh resolution numerically and all controls are on the surface and not beside it, so controling the spae is failry easy.

Another useful feature is the ability to project/align curves/points surfaces to another curve or surface. You can for example draw a curve using a few points, increase the control point resolution by using the Controls at surface resolution command (using a numerically defined number of points) and then project it to the surface. Very useful for analyzing the shape, adding frames, stringers, bulheads and even striping.

/Claes

[Robert Miller]

I began looking into CAD in hopes of finding a software environment capable of proceeding through each step from clean sheet to boat on the water. I am inexperienced in CAD software, so some of the language used in these discussions is unfamiliar. Nevertheless, it does appear to me that the state of CAD boat design on the Mac is still but halfway there.

The superiority of Mac as a platform for graphic design, for overall useability, and stability of the operating system, contributes to frustration that the most complete boat design solutions are all Windows based.

What I've seen of Touchcad is impressive indeed. So it seems to me that the choice, at the moment, is Touchcad/Vectorworks/Artlantis/ together with hobbled together solutions for the many other needed aspects specific to boat design/calculation/layout/scantlings/construction specification, ... OR get into Windows based systems.

Touchcad seems very nice for what it does at present, but perhaps the developers could take the further step to create a complete solution with Touchcad at its core. From preliminary design right through final rendering and also specification, construction drawings, all desired calculations and predictions... all of it.

About to get a new G5, it's just calling out for these developments.
(Can't you hear it?)

Robert

Originally posted by Robert Miller
I began looking into CAD in hopes of finding a software environment capable of proceeding through each step from clean sheet to boat on the water. I am inexperienced in CAD software, so some of the language used in these discussions is unfamiliar. Nevertheless, it does appear to me that the state of CAD boat design on the Mac is still but halfway there.

The superiority of Mac as a platform for graphic design, for overall useability, and stability of the operating system, contributes to frustration that the most complete boat design solutions are all Windows based.

What I've seen of Touchcad is impressive indeed. So it seems to me that the choice, at the moment, is Touchcad/Vectorworks/Artlantis/ together with hobbled together solutions for the many other needed aspects specific to boat design/calculation/layout/scantlings/construction specification, ... OR get into Windows based systems.

Touchcad seems very nice for what it does at present, but perhaps the developers could take the further step to create a complete solution with Touchcad at its core. From preliminary design right through final rendering and also specification, construction drawings, all desired calculations and predictions... all of it.

About to get a new G5, it's just calling out for these developments.
(Can't you hear it?)

Robert

I think just about every hull fairing programs (regardless of platform) need support from a standard CAD programs, regardless of platfrom, so there is nothing strange about that. The same applies for rendering programs. Building a full sized hull fairing/CAD/rendering program is simply beyond what is reasonable for such a small design segment as marine design. Even fairly large supplier as VectorWorks with an installed base of well over 150.000 users and something like 50 programmers in the team actually buy componentes such as their photo reasistic rendering engine add-on externally (UK based LightWorks).

This does not mean that TouchCAD will stop at this point. A version 3.5 maintenance upgrade is currently in beta and it is already over 20% bigger than the 3.0. In other words, expect good progress in the marine area as well as in other areas. It may be a good idea to point out that the brand new 3.0 line was released less that a year ago and that it is a fairly big program (the current 3.5 Carbon beta is currently well over 16 Megs without any help or add-on files included).

Yes the G5´s is really a nice line of machines (I have one) and I must say that I love the new Panther (10.3).


/Claes

[Robert Miller]

"I think just about every hull fairing programs (regardless of platform) need support froma standard CAD programs, regardless of platfrom, so there is nothing strange about that. The same applies for rendering programs. Building a full sized hull fairing/CAD/rendering program is simply beyond what is reasonable for such a small design segment as marine design."

Yes. I agree.

By "complete solution", I do not mean that all components of that solution need to be a single application. Rather, I that there be a core program, such as Touchcad, on which one builds a solution ... with plug-ins and sister applications.

So a suite of programs that fit together, and work together seamlessly, and with ease, with the core program is the goal. These components should provide the solution to the entire process. In this way, all the elements of design would be on the platform, and a design can "flow through" the components - from conception to completion.

Robert

Originally posted by Robert Miller


By "complete solution", I do not mean that all components of that solution need to be a single application. Rather, I that there be a core program, such as Touchcad, on which one builds a solution ... with plug-ins and sister applications.

So a suite of programs that fit together, and work together seamlessly, and with ease, with the core program is the goal. These components should provide the solution to the entire process. In this way, all the elements of design would be on the platform, and a design can "flow through" the components - from conception to completion.

Robert

I think most of the basic stuff should be within the basic program instead of a small army of sub-programs. An example from TouchCAD is the integrated unfolding features, which are dynamically linked to the 3D model and therefore allows the production preparation to be an integrated part of the design process instead of a "you-get-what-you-get" situation afterwards.

There are however some areas where there is a need for specialized sub-programs / plug-ins, for example to make use of external competence in various areas.

I don't see that as much of a problem though as TouchCAD has already added several highly specialized features and interfaces to other programs in the past. An example is the Sail Science PlotMaker export support, which allows sailmakers to make use of their skills and hardware to produce various other fabric based objects than sails. I therefore think that is is up to the users to come up with suggestions.

/Claes

[ludesign]

Originally Posted by Guest

I think most of the basic stuff should be within the basic program instead of a small army of sub-programs. An example from TouchCAD is the integrated unfolding features, which are dynamically linked to the 3D model and therefore allows the production preparation to be an integrated part of the design process instead of a "you-get-what-you-get" situation afterwards.


/Claes

TouchCAD has by the way been updated to 3.0.5, or to be more speciffic, the OpenGL based realtime rendering engine that runs the flyover, walkthrough and animation features has been updated.

Claes