I Need SOFTWARE!

[nukisen]

Hahaha then I think You want to keep the calculation of the wetted surface also.

As not many open source 3d modeller are able to handle this.
Definately not for a house!

Cheers!
Janne

Originally Posted by nukisen

Hahaha then I think You want to keep the calculation of the wetted surface also.
Cheers!
Janne

He wants everything for free! And he wants it immediately! Only a few are as unashamed as this one.

[BTG YACHT DSGN]

too much emotion shared late night... I'll try to give some feedback here now.

[magwas]

I have given a lot of thought to whether to even answer this. I do not reply directly to the comment because I have flagged it for moderation.
I am working in IT, and shareholder in a company which develops some software which is best of their kind. All of them have an open source version, some fully open source. The number of emloyees is around 50, some 30 being developers. All of them are paid partly for developing open source, and some of them develop exclusively open source.
This is my background (and yes, I am very proud of it).
I admit I am not a world class programmer (I know what a world class programmer can do, I am employing several of them), but still better than most of the mouse chasers out there. Every single line I have ever written is open source. When I encounter a bug I can fix I contribute back to the community.
Boat design is just a hobby for me, I am not a threat to your bread. I approach it the same way I approach everything. I believe in information sharing. You might have noticed that when I ask about a design I attach everything I have designed, and in useable format.
I am living in Central Europe. Though I think that India have given the best ever man to the world: Gandhi.
Now you can call me unashamed.

[Jeff]

Megwas, the first reply in this thread was in fact a recommendation to give Delftship a try -- there is both a free and a paid version of Delftship. The free version of Delftship and the open source FreeShip created by the same developer upon which it is based are frequently recommended here. However if you look at the replies by the original poster - for example "I don't have it yet" and "hi, i need software to build a cruise boat" I think you can understand the nature of the replies. There have been a number of posts recently from students in India who have posted very reaching requests with too sparse details to answer hence those reactions. I do not believe there is a bias against India as a country or free or open source software... it's just a bit reaching to ask for a (free) design cd to build a cruise boat with no more specific details given, nor a reply why the free version delftship is not an option for him, etc.

What kind of cruse boat are you designing? What are the criteria of your project? Is it academic or for a real-world build? What experience do you have? What software have you evaluated so far? What are you currently using day to day? In terms of just the software, what aspects of this cruise boat will you be designing and what is your budget? Do you have a design team or consultants that will be using the software/format or just yourself and what is your budget for the software you are seeking? There happens to be much less open source software available than commercial software for hull modeling, so budget is a very real aspect of this question.

[magwas]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Megwas, the first reply in this thread was in fact a recommendation to give Delftship a try -- there is both a free and a paid version of Delftship. The free version of Delftship and the open source FreeShip created by the same developer upon which it is based are frequently recommended here. However if you look at the replies by the original poster - for example "I don't have it yet" and "hi, i need software to build a cruise boat" I think you can understand the nature of the replies. There have been a number of posts recently from students in India who have posted very reaching requests with too sparse details to answer hence those reactions. I do not believe there is a bias against India as a country or free or open source software... it's just a bit reaching to ask for a (free) design cd to build a cruise boat with no more specific details given, nor a reply why the free version delftship is not an option for him, etc.

What kind of cruse boat are you designing? What are the criteria of your project? Is it academic or for a real-world build? What experience do you have? What software have you evaluated so far? What are you currently using day to day? In terms of just the software, what aspects of this cruise boat will you be designing and what is your budget? Do you have a design team or consultants that will be using the software/format or just yourself and what is your budget for the software you are seeking? There happens to be much less open source software available than commercial software for hull modeling, so budget is a very real aspect of this question.

Well, I may have overreacted, but the name calling was started by a comment from a troll who repeatedly attacks me in this forum stating I want everything for free, and it was qouting a reply to one of my comments.

I do not know if your questions are directed to me or serve as an aid for our indian students, but I try to answer anyway. I am starting small, a 3m kayak made from plywood. When I have built it, I plan to do a catamaran out of two such hulls. When that is done and I am still interested in the thing, I might design a blue water trimaran. It is not actually much design: the kayak needs virtually no scantling considerations and I believe even the catamaran would work if I just come out with sizing off the top of my head. But I want to understand the mechanics behind, and this is where my trouble has started. See Learning scantling part 1: general arrangement. Naval Architects please help for the small design and illustration.
As this is only a hobby, I am the design team, and because it is a small project, I do not have any budget consideration. I have very basic knowledge in mechanics (can come up with shear and moment in simple beam settings, but don't know how to apply this to size a beam). I have evaluated some 6 open source cad and 3d modeling programs, and settled with freeship, using qcad for the occasional 2d drawing tasks (e.g. converting a plate development to origami plan).

[BTG YACHT DSGN]

So tell me am I understanding correctly: you're about to design a kayak hull, then manufacture two of them to make a catamaran, add some sails and make it cruiseable? Am I right? If so, I can propose an interesting solution, that in fact is on the market, but could be easily aplied also in this particular project.


The idea is that the plywood floor is lifted if the boat is not sailing and to the edgdes of this floor there's a piece of watertight material attached, and also attached to the hulls on the side. This plywood floor is lifted from the stern side, because it has an axis for rotation near the mast.

Might be an interesting solution to apply. Very simple and seems to give minimum of comfort enabling (in this particular project) to place 3 breaths.

That's my 2 cents here...

[muthu009]

here r some ship design softwares
navcad
free ship
delft ship (can be downloaded in trail version)
maxsurf

[magwas]

Originally Posted by BTG YACHT DSGN

So tell me am I understanding correctly: you're about to design a kayak hull, then manufacture two of them to make a catamaran, add some sails and make it cruiseable? Am I right? If so, I can propose an interesting solution, that in fact is on the market, but could be easily aplied also in this particular project.


The idea is that the plywood floor is lifted if the boat is not sailing and to the edgdes of this floor there's a piece of watertight material attached, and also attached to the hulls on the side. This plywood floor is lifted from the stern side, because it has an axis for rotation near the mast.

Might be an interesting solution to apply. Very simple and seems to give minimum of comfort enabling (in this particular project) to place 3 breaths.

That's my 2 cents here...

Can I understand you correctly that you are talking about a design like this: small cat ?
I am not sure I understand the part about lifting from the stern side. Is the rotational axis in the bow end of the floor?

My original idea was using thick plywood for the floor and lots of bolts all around. I am concerned with the forces. I could not yet figure out what design forces to use and then I still have to come out with thickness and bolt spacing.

[Wynand N]

Originally Posted by magwas

the name calling was started by a comment from a troll who repeatedly attacks me in this forum stating I want everything for free...

I hate to piss on your parade, but the member you are referring to here are one of our most respected and knowledgeable members with a CV in the boating industry you can only dream off.

Reading the quote above it seems that you are name calling
Some parting thought; "cowboys do not cry"

Originally Posted by magwas

I am working in IT, and shareholder in a company which develops some software which is best of their kind. All of them have an open source version, some fully open source.

You completely misunderstood the comment PAR made!
He was referring to one special Indian university, where obviously the students share their knowledge about this Forum, being helpful.
The same is valid for the ITU in Istanbul.

And you, as obviously, do´nt know much about "open source" software. You have been told that once, but you might have forgotten. So, I will refresh your memory.

bistros wrote:

I work in the open source software world, and I feel that most people's understanding of open source lacks foundation.

Open source is a synonym for the traditional academic model of publishing and sharing research. It is not intended to mean a free for all, steal what you like environment for ransacking people's intellectual property. It is perfectly well accepted that much of the code published under open source licensing is commercial and profitable - just not closed. MySQL & OpenOffice (Sun), Apache Webserver (Apache Foundation), Firefox, Seamonkey & Thunderbird (Mozilla Foundation), Ubuntu (Canonical), PHP (Zend) are all profitable enterprises - and some are remarkable commercial businesses.

The intent of open source licensing is to provide a structure where the code and research done is published and can be improved and contributed to by those that follow - under the rule that subsequent modifications and improvements be published again for the advancement of the state of the art. There is nothing mentioned in the popular licenses regarding price be free and assigning intellectual property ownership away from the creator.

As an engineer, I live and survive on the value of the products I produce - and I also heavily use open source foundations for these products. Am I worried about "giving away" my efforts? Not in the slightest. Why? Because realistically my clients are paying for my hands-on expertise in understanding their needs, making things work, and keeping them running. The service aspect of the code I write is where my profit lies, not the acquisition price of the code.

the complete post is here:

Open Source Designs

You have been lucky that Ad Hoc assisted you in learning the basics of yacht design until it came to some legwork to be done by yourself! But thats not your approach, you like to be spoonfed. That is what I call unashamed.
Name calling looks quite different.

But what do you know? You call me troll.

You called all the NA´s and builders and designers here unsocial, because they were not willing to give you a free ride on a subject matter taking years to accomplish.

So, when WE are the trolls ok, so be it........


A general footnote:
one should not assume a serious answer when one is childish enough to show a location like "planet" , "cybertron" or "elsewhere" !!!
That might look funny at the drivel and jokes departement but it looks just premature in the serious parts of the Forum.

Richard

[magwas]

bistros has made some very important points, and I am thinking the same as him. I hope you will understand it sometime.
It is very funny that you are the one who wants to teach me what open source is. Believe me it is impossible to live from open source without fully understanding it: if you are not honest, the community will drop you out. It did happen even with the biggest companies.
FYI:
I am doing my homework. If you would also read the forum, not just write, you would have noticed. I want to be sure what general arrangement is before I take more time of Ad Hoc. Yes, I had been heavily discouraged for some time by agressive comments I did not understand the reason behind. Now I think I understand the reason. Let me tell you that those who soundly believe that they are good in something do not feel the need to show others how little they know about the subject.

Not being willing to give out information is not unsocial, just not wise in most circumstances. This is what I have said. Bashing the ones asking is unsocial. Even by those who know their profession very well.

[BTG YACHT DSGN]

Originally Posted by magwas

Can I understand you correctly that you are talking about a design like this: small cat ?
I am not sure I understand the part about lifting from the stern side. Is the rotational axis in the bow end of the floor?

My original idea was using thick plywood for the floor and lots of bolts all around. I am concerned with the forces. I could not yet figure out what design forces to use and then I still have to come out with thickness and bolt spacing.

Look: I had in my mind, as you said, a small cat. The floor is attached to the hulls permanently. On this floor there's another, the same dimensons but free to rotate about an axis in its ,,bow" part. The floor permament and the floor lifted are connected by a piece of mateial. That creates a small cabin for 3 breaths.

Would it be helpful for your particular project?

If I had more time I'd sketch it

[magwas]

Originally Posted by BTG YACHT DSGN

The floor permament and the floor lifted are connected by a piece of mateial. That creates a small cabin for 3 breaths.

Would it be helpful for your particular project?

If I had more time I'd sketch it

I think I got the idea now. It is surely of use for someone, but I am thinking about just a small confined water daysailer. I guess I would plan a bit bigger and use the hulls for accomodation if I wanted it to be cruiseable.

Well, it is the on-water equivalent of camping. Could be nice for father-and-son adventure, kids old enough to camp out by themselves (my wife would die of worrying), or the young cost-conscious for a lake holiday.
However when the weather is rough, it seems it could be very bumpy. I guess it could be designed in a way that it could be comfortably anchored from bow (make the lifted floor's center of effort due to wind to after midship), so the lifted floor can mean real shelter, but I am not sure how comfortable would it be compared to say a 25ft monohull. I guess the longitudinal metacentric height of the monohull would be much higher than the cat not just due to length but also to weight distribution. Granted a 10ft cat costs heaps less.

[sandeep]

Try Delft ship it's a very simple software.It will helps you to do initial design