buying ship design software

[Archive]

I work for a small Canadian naval architect firm primarily designing fishing vessels under 150 ft. We are currently evaluating software programs to do the design as everything now is down by hand with limited autocad.
looking for a program to develope lines, do stability anylsis and booklets, and eventually structure which will automatically update with changes.

Right now my favorite is Autoship just because I've used it previously and have the most information on it.

Wondering if anyone has a better solution? Price is a critical feature.

Greg

[Archive]

Dear Greg,
For being completely honest, I would like to introduce myself as a Naval Architect and the Foreign Affairs Manager of DEFCAR Ingenieros.

Regarding to your question, I do not want to use this forum to disqualify any other software, but I would like to present you a fact: about 80% of the fishing vessels and tugs (between 80 and 200 ft) built in Spain each year have been done with DEFCAR System (over 30 shipyards and drawing offices are users of DEFCAR in Spain).

We are not satisfied only with the design. On the contrary, we are considering the production of the vessel at all times. For this reason, DEFCAR has been developed along with ARMON Shipyard (which bilds about 45 vessels per year) and CINTRANAVAL Technical Office (which is the main designer of Tuna vessels and tugs in Spain). This way, all kind of practical considerations have been taken into account by our programers.

By the way, ours are very affordable prices...


Please , do not hesitate to contact me for any additional information about DEFCAR System.

Best regards,
Javier Tuduri
jtuduri@defcar.es


Edited by: Javier Tuduri

[Archive]

Maxsurf and Autoship are easily the market leaders worldwide in workboat and small ship design software - the choice between them comes down to cost, reliability and ease of use, and I personally think Maxsurf is superior in these areas.
I suggest you seriously look at Maxsurf http://www.formsys.com
Demo versions of all their software are available on the site with manuals

[Archive]

A good number of small shipyards use ShipConstructor, www.albacoreresearch.com

[Archive]

Another web site with an interesting software :
http://www.navaldesigner.com/
Naval Designer is cheap and quite easy.

[Archive]

I haven't seen Naval Designer before. Is there an English version available?

[Archive]

I've looked at most of the ones listed here.
Defcar has a very nice presentation and alot of nice little features like inclining forms. However I am unsure of its versitility.

Autoship looks fine haven't had a chance to see the new autostructure component.

Maxsurf has the best price, espeacially with the low australian dollar.

Ship constructor isn't a complete design package and is quite expensive.

I'm still looking for the ideal software package if it exist. I think its just a matter of getting one and living with it.

Something that I've noticed is that some regulatory orginizations are getting specific on the software packages they will accept for stability calculations. Most like GHS mainly because that is what they have and know.

[Archive]

Some examples of the DEFCAR System's versatility:
- For stern trawlers of 100 ft.:

Hullform fairing with DFform – 3 days (1 person)
Expansion of shell plates with DFshell - 3 days (1 people)
Internal structure modelling with DFstruc – 8 days (2 people)
Nesting with Lantek – 2 days (1 person)


- Cargo vessel of 500 ft:

Hullform fairing with DFform– 3 days (1 person)
Expansion of shell plates with DFshell – 8 days (1 person)
Internal structure modelling with DFstruc – 25 days (2 people)
Nesting with Lantek – 10 days (1 person)


These are the delivery times of our Technical Office, which has carried out more than 40 vessels in 2 years. Anyway, very known DEFCAR's users, like ARMON Shipyard, CINTRANAVAL Technical Office or BAZAN Carenas (IZAR) are examples of DEFCAR System's versatility...


On the other hand, being DEFCAR one of the cheapest software solution, it offers the user enough automatic tools to mark the differences.

Like the most modern programs of hullform generation and naval architecture, the DEFCAR System utilizes Bezier surfaces, which allow the user to obtain very accurate results in a very easy way. Besides, all kind of calculations (from Hydrostatics to Damaged Stability) can be obtained.

Even so, users can realize the GREAT DIFFERENCES IN PRODUCTION BUNDLES between DEFCAR and the others. For example, different from majority, with DEFCAR's production bundle you can obtain the following:

- Shell expansion of all type of plates (even those ones which haven’t 4 sides or do cover both sides).
- Bending templates and jigs.
- Automatic generation of frames, profiles or brackets between any 2 sections of the vessel. For this, you have only to get the parameters of the piece and the program will obtain them automatically.
- It isn’t necessary to use any additional drawing editor. The own DFstruc is a powerful editor.
- Automatic bending of frames, beams and profiles with their expansion length and measurements.
- List of weights and Centres of Gravity.
- Nesting and NC cutting files with Lantek, which is used by thousands of companies all over the world (It is the 3rd. one in sales in the world).


If you are not still convinced about which is the best software solution for you...please, feel free to contact me (unlike my competitors, you can find my data here)

Javier Tuduri
Naval Architect
DEFCAR Ingenieros, S.L.

[Archive]

When I questioned Defcars versitility what I meant was for evaluating no-ship shape structures or non conventional ships. From what I have seen of it I would say it is ideally suited for ship shape design.

[Archive]

Greg,
I use this sort of software to design reasonably complex shapes (entire hull and superstructure models of catamarans)

I used to use AutoShip and found it very bug ridden and limited in application and versatility.

I have also quized the MaxSurf authors and tested the demo and found that that it is equally limited in shape generation and control as AutoShip, each one having some but different features required to model fair shapes with sufficient flexibility to conform to the design process, but neither has everything you need.

I now use Multisurf, which is far superior to either of the other products (I have no affiliation with Multisurf). While MultiSurf does have some limitations, it is an order of magnitude above the other two products mentioned. There customer service is also excellent, a far cry from that of AutoShip.

Ideally I would like to use Unigraphics Software, which looks to have all of the features I would like, however the price and learning time are limiting factors at this stage.

If you would like any more specific information then reply to this post or e-mail me direct.

Stuart
stuarthb@crowther.com.au

[Javier Tuduri]

Please find enclosed the comments of Dave Fraser who is the president of MMC -Canada- (the company of Greg Wiggins – the initial lecturer-). MMC HAVE FINALLY CHOSEN DEFCAR SYSTEM and these are their comments after the training and some weeks using our software.



COMMENTS OF DAVE FRASER:

“Here are a few comments re our selection of the Defcar software system for use in this office.
MMC obtained information of many software packages between the fall of 2000 and the spring of 2001 to try and evaluate their commercial and practical viability for a marine consultancy involved with vessels in the 50 to 350 foot length range of various types.
The Defcar package was finally selected as our choice although not the cheapest.
The following are some of the reasons for our selection:-
a) We have many years of experience with output of the "established" software packages, which are variable between projects in quality.
b) We did not consider the "sliding spline" fairing system as we considered that it was a computerized version of the traditional manual fairing method which greatly depands on the ability of the person in obtaining a "good" fairing.
c) In developing new designs towo methods were offered;
from scratch or utilizing and modifying a design from the Defcar library of vessels.
d) It was possible to purchase the software in two stages
the "design" and the "construction" package which would enable us to evaluate both the program and the co-operation with the supplier prior to purchasing the second part.
f) Very important we noted that Defcar carries out work directly for shipyards, consultants and ship Owners both in Spain and other European countries.
g) It is therefore possible to absorb the operation of the system at the pace our staff and workload can handle and subcontract to Defcar itself in the early stages with prompt delivery and sensible cost.
h) If changes are made in the design/development the system output is automatically updated without any requirement for re-entry of data.
i) The training program can be carried out at the users offices, using their computer facilities and set up. So Defcar is aware of the computer knhowledge of the future users and any particular requirements that the user may have.
To date we have been correct in our assumptions.


D.J.Fraser, P.Eng.,
President/ Naval Architect

c.c. File.”




We are pleased to inform that the following companies are new DEFCAR's users since May 2001:

- Francisco Cardama Shipyard (Vigo - Spain)
- Maritime Marine Consultants (Rothesay - Canada)
- Pineiro Shipyard (Vigo - Spain)
- CULMAR SAL (Cadiz - Spain)
- CONTENEMAR - Tecnamar (Bilbao- Spain)
- Drassanes Dalmau (Barcelona - Spain)
- Seabrook International Ltd (Switzerland and UK)
- Bill Owen - Consultant (Chester- UK)
- Navalina- Consultant (Mazatlan - Mexico)
- Leonard van den Berg - Consultant (Barcelona-Spain)
- POLCAR, S.L (Alicante - Spain)
- ARQUINAUTIC, S.L (Altea, Alicante - Spain)
- IZAR Carenas Ingenieria (Cadiz- Spain) - for technical support with DEFCAR to 5 shipyards belonging IZAR CARENAS -


Do not hesitate to contact me for any information about DEFCAR System
Best regards

Javier Tuduri
Naval Architect
Export Manager
www.defcar.com

[Stephen Ditmore]

Personally, I'm leaning toward ProSurf 3. I like Steve Hollister's approach - his work seems to blend user friendliness and sophistication.

For general industrial design also check out:
www.solidthinking.com
www.deskartes.com
www.rhino3d.com

Many top designers use FastShip from Proteus Engineering, but it's not cheap!

[Stephen Ditmore]

Animation programs that might have some ID application include:
http://www.eovia.com/
http://www.hash.com/

[Brian]

I use Hullform 8, DesignCAD, MathCAD, Excel, Word. These are all very affordable programs.

Much of my work has to be submitted to regulatory agencies or courts when doing expert witness work. Therefore the work needs to be clearly presented.

I make extensive use of Excel and MathCAD templates. Some of these are available at www.hawaii-marine.com/templates. Two templates are free and others are available for a small fee.

For a tugboat submittal to USCG I would do the hull in Hullform. Take the curves of form data it generates and plug it into a multiple page spreadsheet. Then I take the stability test data and plug it into the weights and moments portion of the Light Ship spreadsheet. I take the tank information and plug that into the Tank Sheet. Then various conditions like Departure, Intermediate and Arrival Conditions are input into Trim and Stability sheets for each condition. These sheets sum up the vessel weight, correct for free surface, automatically calculate initial stability and trimming characteristics. Hullform is then used to generate Cross Curves for each condition. MathCAD takes this data and checks if the vessel meets various stabilty criteria like minimum righting arms, areas etc. Then the master streadsheet plots all this data showing required and actual. From the output it can be determined if vessel meets all the various requirements. This master multiple page spreadsheet is not yet available at www.hawaii-marine.com/templates. Hopefully one of these days I will get some time to put it up.

Now Hullform and many hull design programs will calculate trim and stability and other characteristics at the push of a button. But for me the presentation of information is not as explicit as the process mentioned above.

Granted Hullform offers Hullstat which improves the presentation information. In fact all the software vendors are getting better and better at presenting information. But the above method is a very reasonably priced alternative, especially for design firms without deep pockets.

[Slipy]

Dear Javier,

I used to work with Defcar software. In my opinion preparing the hull shape with DFform is very good, simmilary hydrostatic calculation with DFhydro. But structure module DFstruc is completly unsufficient and you have to spend many years on developing your software.
Now this office uses only modules DFform and DFhydro, for structure works with Nupas

Best regards

Adam Slipy
SeaTech Engineering