Best Marine Design Software for Hull Modeling? (2008-09)

[Felix Muehlhoff]

I am using Unigraphics NX (Siemens) since 6 years for all my work. Hulldesign, detailed fairing of hull and superstructure, construction, piping, expansions, profile lists and cutting pieces. Also FEM and CFD is possible. NX has a special modul for shipdesign and an interface to Modelmaker from Autoship for stability calculations.
Before I used Rhino, ACAD, Mastership, Fastship etc.
No I have one system for all my work. No problems with translating data, no problems with changing design because NX is fully assoziativ from surface model to cutting pieces, no problem with complex, large models.
A lot of shipyards in Germany and the Netherlands are using NX.

[shellexpansion]

NX is really a high end product, the other one is catia. Too expensive for boat design. Intergraph want to chip in with smartMarine (used to be intelliship). I have never used UG products, so my opinion may not be correct. However, from my own experience and my involvment with so many projects related with ship design software, I could not find any single solution that can solve all the problems. UK builds nuke sub with CADD5 (Astute project), a lot of delays and complains, but CADDS5 was still the best at that time, even now they are still using it. It is 8B pounds project! Later on, HHI (Korea) tried to build a complete ship design software based on CADDS5 or (pro/E), and failed. Now they are working with Tribon, still going on. Intergraph had US navy projects (by beating Computerversion CADDS5), failed. I can write a long list. They are all high ends and not much related with us. Sorry so long off the topic.

As to this thread, I think Rhino is the best, even the high end product like smartMarine from Intergraph normally use hull generated by Rhino. I use rhino a lot and I think it is great one for hull design.

[daiquiri]

Felix, what can you tell me abut the rendering capabilities of NX? Plus, do you perhaps use NX Shape Studio module and (if you do) what do you think about it?

[rocknrule]

I still think NX and Catia are the best - very expensive upfront. But ultimately the project is easier to manage. There is a high price for quick and cheap!!!

[usrowboy]

I am total novice when it comes to 3d software. I know boats though and can loft on a drafting table; even built a few strip planked canoes and a whitehall.
I have worked with Corel 11 in conjunction with my laser ( a hobby for trophies and engraving and such).
I'd like to make a model of the kit ocean rowboat that I used in the 2001 Atlantic rowing race. It was cut from marine ply using a laser and assembled to some pretty close tolerances. I can't find out what software they used to design the boat though.
I've tried reproducing it with Corel in 2D but I can only go so far with the 60 or so parts that make up the frame. When it comes to making the skin fit, forget it. It just won't work. Adjusting one small detail leads to adjusting quite a few other parts.
Is there something that I can buy and learn on my own that would enable me to "fit" these assorted parts together and make a fair hull?
I looked at SolidWorks and they promised the world, but at $7k and up, it's got way more features than I 'd ever need.
Thanks for your help and input up front.
Feel free to email me directly about this.
usrowboy@nj.rr.com
rowboy

[Felix Muehlhoff]

Originally Posted by daiquiri

Felix, what can you tell me abut the rendering capabilities of NX? Plus, do you perhaps use NX Shape Studio module and (if you do) what do you think about it?

Yes I'm using the shape studio module first of all for hull design and fairing of superyachts, inland waterway vessels (very complex shapes) and other ships . I have never seen a better software for this kind of work (I think Catia the same) . It is quick and easy to become a production ready faired lines plan with all building details in it. It is assoziativ and parametrical so variations or changes in shape are very easy.
Also I'm using shape studio for the design of superstructures of superyachts.
The render module of NX comes from LightWorks. Go to the website of lightworks (www.lightworks-user.com) to see examples. I'm using this module in early phase of project. It is easy to use and very fast while rendering and the quality of pictures are excelent.

Felix

[shellexpansion]

Looks like there are a lot of guys loving NX (or UG). Maybe someone can answer the follwoing questions how far you can go with UG. To my best knowledge about NX, it is similiar like CATIA, not for design, but for populating the model, so we already have a hull, now we can list the requirements:
a. hull faring (I think UX must be good).
(1). Hull fairing, block defintion (ug must be good for the tasks)
(2). create panle, seam lines, landing curves, girders, stringers stiffener, floor plates, margin plates, cutouts, end cuts, notch. (I believe UX can do those things as it is a basic thing).
(3). shell expansion, Pinjig, templates, roll lines, bending curves and plate unfolding (can UX do this?).
(4). piping, duck lines, genspool drawing, isometric drawings for pipes, (can UX do this? I doubt).
(5). Pipe support, equipment supports (can UX do this?)
(6). BOM??
It is a very short list, it can be a very long one if you want to build a system that can handle every tasks for building a ship. I doubt any software can do all of thems.
As to the hull fairing, Rhino3d is good enough.

[shellexpansion]

Originally Posted by usrowboy

Is there something that I can buy and learn on my own that would enable me to "fit" these assorted parts together and make a fair hull?
I looked at SolidWorks and they promised the world, but at $7k and up, it's got way more features than I 'd ever need.
Thanks for your help and input up front.
Feel free to email me directly about this.
usrowboy@nj.rr.com
rowboy

Rhino3d is a good choice.

[Felix Muehlhoff]

1. yes with shape studio
2. yes, UG has an special module shipdesign
3. yes with the shipdesign module
4. yes piping is part of the shipdesign module
5. yes standard modeling functions
6. yes also profile lists with detailed information of inverse bendings, ventilation holes in profiles, shape endcut etc.

No rhino3d is not good enough for a professional steel or alu production ready hull fairing with all needed details in it. It is only good enough for the first design. It takes too long time to do it in Rhino in good quality. At the end to do it with rhino is too expensive. Believe me I have done this work with rhino before.

Felix

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by Felix Muehlhoff

Yes I'm using the shape studio module...

Ok, thanks for the reply. I'll see to learn more about UG and will ask to see it in action at the Informatics fair in Milan (SMAU), next month.

[shellexpansion]

Felix, you talk about the best CAD/CAM software in the world, (hope you are not from Siemens AG), I cerntainly agree UG is the best one to choose, but it may be too expensive for the boat design.

[valber]

Originally Posted by shellexpansion

... I cerntainly agree UG is the best one to choose, but it may be too expensive for the boat design.

And how much it costs in a configuration for boat designing?

[Felix Muehlhoff]

Hi shellexpansion,

I'm german but I'm not from Siemens .
Before I used NX I also thought NX is too expensive. But after doing two projects of detailed hull design in NX I saw the advantages and how expensive it is to work with the "normal" software as Rhino, maxsurf, autoship, autocad, cad constructor and so on.
You are right NX is expensive and you are right if you do only one small project per year. And it depends on what you have to do. If you do only simple hull design it may be too expensive but if you have to do 10 or more detailed hull designs (for nc cutting) a year such me you will have a large win situation.
The costs for NX are depending on the modules you want to buy. Only the necessary module to make hull design (shape studio) costs about 25 times of rhino (I don't know the exact proces of today). The shipdesign module for construction is extra. The time win for hull design (my experience) during a project is about 50-75% against rhino.

Felix

[shellexpansion]

Felix, vielen Dank.
have you tried ShipConstructor? it consists of ShipCam and AutoCAD based detail designs.

[Felix Muehlhoff]

Hi Shellexpansion,

no problem, gern geschehen.

Yes I have tried shipconstructor 4 years ago. But it was more expensive than NX (Yes, more expensive) and it is not a assoziativ system. Also the graphics interface (Autocad) has performance problems with large assemblies. The advantage of ship constructor is ACAD. Everybody is able to work with ACAD. But my experience is from 4 years ago. I think now shipconstructor is better and maybe cheaper.

Felix