Anyone using CATIA V5 ?

Is there anyone using CATIA to design sailboats? If so, why not?

I come from the aeronautical world where it's pretty much a standard - and in the auto industry as well. To me, it's the most complete software that will allow you to do any 3D surface you wish and will let you control it too! (along with solids, etc.. and all the exports you could wish for) It used to be complex and ran only on UNIX platforms, but now there's V5 that runs on Windows, is easier to learn and use, and bonus, is half the cost of ProE ! I've heard of a few places that use UG or ProE, but to me, they're less flexible than CATIA and certainly more expensive. (I've used all three packages for over 10 yrs and have seen a lot of evolution, and CATIA still stands out)

It seems to me the softwares that are dedicated to hull design are just that - hull design. It's inflexible and won't allow you to complete the whole project on the the same software; ie: interiors, plumbing, electrical, mechanical, drafting,etc.. Granted, I've not been exposed to a whole lot of them, but that's what I gather from most of those listed in this forum.

CATIA is also great to get the physical properties out of the design - and macros can be easily written (visual basic) to automate most tedious calcs (cp, displ, clr, etc...). So it wouldn't be to hard to include an hydrostatic module either - and it will talk with most CFD and Structural analysis packages.

Hence, why isn't it widespread among yacht designers? I'm including a little pict of a quick design I did in less than 1 hr to show how quick a boat can take form in CATIA...

Any insight on my comment will be greatly appreciated !

Manon

[Manon Belzile]

sorry, the attachment doesn't seem to be working for some reason...
oh well.

[duluthboats]

Manon, the price is way to high for most, or it is for me anyway. But your right it is some great software.

Gary

[Jeff]

Welcome to our forums Manon!

What type of file were you trying to attach? Image files (.jpg, .gif) and common drawing formats should attach fine, but others need to be specified individually (added upon demand) in an attempt to not have any virus or other potentially harmful file types attached.

As far as CATIA, I've never had a chance to work with it because as Gary says, I've always considered it much more than my budget would allow. What is the current ballpark price for a single seat CATIA license? Some designers whose work I really enjoy such as Michael Peters Yacht Design do use CATIA - but for a small design office how much better does it have to be than a pretty good solution (the hull design program of your choice and rhino for interior modeling and detailing) which can be had for as little as $1500.

Hi Jeff,

I was trying to post a jpg - perhaps it's not working since I'm using a VPN tunnel or MS explorer... oh well. Here i try again.

CATIA V5 R9 retails for around 12k$US for the standard mechanical design package which has everything to design a very nice boat indeed. However, prices fluctuate quite a bit since they are trying to gain market share and I know of a promotion where you could get the package for 6K last summer. Now, that's a very good deal for a software that'll do everything but wash dishes!

There's some other modules that can be bought (for extra dollars) such as fea analysis, etc... I've got the analysis one but sadly, it's only a linear solver and not that great - although it's good enough for prelim structural stuff and far ahead of rule of thumb design. Nothing for CFD - but then again, I don't think most designers are doing that now... apart from Finot, Farr and other big time race boat design offices. Certainly not the 1500$ software...

For me, (I do consulting mech. design for gas turbine engines and other aeronautical goodies ) the investment has been many times paid over and I don't have a broad client base. The best thing is that I can do it with my laptop from the nav station in my sailboat!

At any rate, I think what drives the equation here is the time you spend using the software vs the fees you can collect for the work. For exemple if someone pays 50K for a sailboat design and it takes you 1000 hrs with the 1500$ software vs 250 hrs with the 12k$ software, then the roi is better with the most expensive software, isn't it? (assuming you will be able to fill the remaining 750 hrs with something else...)


All in all, i guess it's one of those choices that are driven by the industry - certainly for me. I would love to hear from CATIA users that are designing boats and share ideas and tips - and then maybe do some consulting....


Manon

[scarab2]

I guess the major reason why Catia aren't used so often by boatmanufacturers are simply because of the pricetag... A full version of Catia V5 is almost 100.000$... from the beginning catia was developed by a group at Renault (not guite sure...) The wallet of the automotiveindustry are slightly bigger than the boatingindustry... but I agree... V5 kicks ass... Love it...

Have catia v5 r 11 and all plugins for sale $2000.00usd

interested e-mail scottmschool@hotmail.com

[Jeff]

A general note to anyone considering buying secondhand software: make absolutely sure that it is legal to sell/transfer the specific license first - check with the company before considering such a purchase, of any software.

[zeroname]

hy

can anyone tell me that, is CATIA FOR YACHT , is integrated with Catia v 5 , or its' a plugin which is need to be installed seperately ,, like rhinomarine for rhino?

Thanks

[Ad Hoc]

Paramarine version 6 is as good if not much better than Catia, since it is 'designed' for use with ships/boats. The hull modeller is simply amazing, cutting edge stuff. Plus all sorts of "modelling" add on's for simulation, if you want them too. For ships/boats, ie seakeeping etc. A real naval architects tool, not just a bit of fancy software.

[zeroname]

thanks.. but i think its not my desired answer.. i have not ask about paramarine. i heard of the product "CATIA FOR YACHT" , is it in the package of Catia , or need to buy separately as plugins?

[Ad Hoc]

zeroname
I wasn't referring to you, as you didn't post the question regarding catia.
But referring to your post, why not just contact Catia direct, simple!

[Ncik]

And don't forget training costs, either commercial or self-training. Noone can just buy then use CATIA without training and expect to get useful information out of it.

[marshmat]

CATIA v5r19 student edition is $75 CDN, but is only available to students and only for training purposes.
CATIA v6 commercial licence fees are negotiated between the distributor and the client, and depend on features, modules, number of seats, etc. but tend to run into the five figures. Hence why it is not commonly used in smaller design houses.
From what I've been told by firms that do use it, figure on $40,000 to $60,000 per seat by the time you include the software itself, the seriously kick-ass hardware needed to make full use of it, the cost of training, and the cost of paying your guy to attend enough training sessions to make full use of it. Obviously, you MUST do your own economic analysis to figure out how much it would actually cost you, and how much benefit you'd gain from it.
Keep in mind that the software was originally developed by Dassault as a complete life-cycle solution for the entire aviation industry. When you have 700 engineers working on a 12-year project involving 150 subcontractors, a suite like CATIA becomes a strikingly logical development.

[DavidJ]

This is ironic that this 7 year old thread has been brought up right when I was looking for answers about Catia. I'm wondering the same thing about Catia yacht. I don't know if it is a plug in or a complete stand alone package. Contacting a distributor is probably the logical step but I'm just not interested in being chased by a salesman.

The company I am with is currently switching to Catia for all of the reasons mentioned by the thread starter. Yes it is VERY expensive. I am presently just learning it, but some of the office is already very proficient. It isn't necessarily difficult to learn. The guys who come from a solid modeling (ie; solidworks) background are having no trouble learning it. The autocad and rhino guys are having a little more trouble.

One thing that is not true is the part about it requiring powerful PC's. It actually runs great with very simple machines. This is one of it's main benefits and the primary reason we started switching to it. I have no idea how they do this, but it is miles and miles ahead of the other programs I am familiar with in this regard (solidworks,autocad, and Rhino). It runs on simple laptops with marginal video cards. Processor power helps a lot but you can open up gigantic models that would crush solidworks or rhino. And for converting these models into 2D drawings it absolutely destroys the others. I have literally waited half an hour or more for rhino to cut a single section through a model that Catia will do in 1 second. No lies, no exaggerations and no I don't get paid by Catia. I did this just last week. I was making a 2D autocad drawing out of a Rhino model like I often do. I was waiting forever to get my sections (half hour+). I exported the Rhino model as an iges. I then had one of the Catia guys open it in Catia and cut me multiple sections and export them for me so I could make my autocad drawing. I promise you he cut each section as fast as he could draw a vertical line through it. I hope to never use Rhino again just because of this. Now if you want to talk about ease of modifications, automatic updating of your 2D drawings after changes to the 3D model, the ability to use the same software all the way from hull design to structure detailing to interior CNC files, etc it can't be beat. As long as you have work this program should pay for it's high cost easily.