NMMA/ABYC Stability vs ISO

[DavidJ]

Hello, I have a client that runs a fishing charter business in Canada using "Boston Whaler" style boats and Transport Canada is asking for proof of stability compliance with their Construction Standards For Small Vessels (TP1332E). These regulations reference ISO 12217-1 as a suitable standard to be followed for stability. They also contain their own standards to be achieved through an inclining experiment in lieu of ISO 12217-1.

The client would like to know if Transport Canada will accept proof of NMMA certification as compliance with stability standards.

I have ISO 12217-1, but I do not have the ABYC standards available and I was wondering if their Boat Load Capacity (H-05) standards include a similar stability assessment? Things like a minimum GM, area under the righting lever (GZ) 30-40 degrees, and maximum GZ.

And by extension I would like to know if a vessel is certified by the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) does it thereby mean that it has been designed and built to all applicable ABYC regulations? I'm not familiar with NMMA, but on their website they list the ABYC regulations that they follow for certification. So for example they list ABYC Capacity H-05, so does it follow that any vessel certified by them meets or exceeds all requirements laid out in those standards?

So in a nutshell what I want to know is: if a vessel has NMMA certification does it meet the stability criteria laid out in ISO 12217-1?

Thank you,
David

[Eric Sponberg]

David,

ABYC does not have any stability standards. The H-5 standard is for capacity only, to determine the maximum weight of people and gear that the boat can carry. There is no criteria for measuring or evaluating GM, either in this section or any other section.

Back some years ago, the NMMA (National Marine Manufacturers Association, which overseas recreational boatbuilding, production, marketing, and lobbying with Congress) maintained their own standards, which eventually became near duplicates of the ABYC standards. There was little incentive to do duplicate work, so the NMMA dropped their standards effort in favor of the ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council). The ABYC now tasks themselves with keeping their standards up to date with science and practice, and to be as closely aligned with the ISO standards as far as practical. To date, however, there is no ABYC stability standard. I am not certain of the certification process by NMMA on what that means with regard to the ABYC standards, if that is a necessary element of certification. Perhaps an NMMA functionary will chime in here.

Since NMMA, and by extension, ABYC, don't have stability standards, your client must rely back to the Canadian and/or ISO standards. NMMA certification won't do it.

I hope that helps.

Eric

I am a member of the ABYC.

[DavidJ]

Thank you very much Mr.Sponberg. That is what I thought. In my initial conversation with the client I told them as much, but I felt I should get a second opinion from someone who actually knew something about NMMA and the ABYC standards.

I actually wrote you Eric when I was a student looking for help on my final year project about 4 years ago. You gave some very helpful advice. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and your time.

David

[Alik]

ISO12217-1 is not intended for commercial boats; those used for fishing charter should comply to different standards. Some problems with ISO12217 are: no collision or other bulkheads, 'offshore' category possible for 8m boats; method of assessing roll angle for weather criteria. This works for pleasure boats though I beleive good design practice should provide more safety features.

[Eric Sponberg]

Originally Posted by DavidJ

Thank you very much Mr.Sponberg. That is what I thought. In my initial conversation with the client I told them as much, but I felt I should get a second opinion from someone who actually knew something about NMMA and the ABYC standards.

I actually wrote you Eric when I was a student looking for help on my final year project about 4 years ago. You gave some very helpful advice. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and your time.

David

My Pleasure. Glad I have been of some help.

Eric

[ABoatGuy]

Hi Alik,

It sounds like these are small charter fishing boats under 6m if he is referring to ISO 12217-1. Small boats with guys going fishing as opposed to commercial fishing vessels with real fishing gear, tanks, etc. where the requirements for subdivision and more restrictive stability rules would be very appropriate. [Although I bet some of those gold reels cost as much as a hydraulic winch :-) )

Canada's rules allow for use of ISO12217-1 for these small boat and in my mind it is appropriate. MCA MGN 280 also allows the use of the ISO rule for small commercial boats, workboats and pilot boats.

[Alik]

Originally Posted by ABoatGuy

Hi Alik,

It sounds like these are small charter fishing boats under 6m if he is referring to ISO 12217-1. Small boats with guys going fishing as opposed to commercial fishing vessels with real fishing gear, tanks, etc. where the requirements for subdivision and more restrictive stability rules would be very appropriate. [Although I bet some of those gold reels cost as much as a hydraulic winch :-) )

Canada's rules allow for use of ISO12217-1 for these small boat and in my mind it is appropriate. MCA MGN 280 also allows the use of the ISO rule for small commercial boats, workboats and pilot boats.

ISO12217-1 is not applicable for boats below 6m, is so one should use ISO12217-3. Yes I know that some marine administrations allow to use those rules but to certain length and category of commercial craft.

[DavidJ]

Yes, Alik I understand what you are saying ISO12217-1 is supposed to be for boats greater than 6m and ISO12217-3 for under 6m. I have not looked very hard into this at the moment I was simply quoting the Transport Canada regulations which reference ISO12217-1. I do not have enough knowledge to comment on the appropriateness of the rules.

And yes ABoatGuy is exactly right about the type of fishing being done. They are small boats used for pleasure fishing. One guide with 2-4 well-to-do clients and they return every evening.

I do not know the exact size or model of boats. All I know is that they are fibreglass production boats that have NMMA certification. We have not yet been given any actual paid work on these vessels. We work with the company on other matters and I was simply asked my unofficial opinion and a ballpark idea of what would be required for TC approval.

[TeddyDiver]

It's somewhat differing what ISO says about the use their standards and what bureaucrates find convenient. So in many countries these ISO recreational boat standars are also standards for smal commercial and fishing vessels too..

[Alik]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

It's somewhat differing what ISO says about the use their standards and what bureaucrates find convenient. So in many countries these ISO recreational boat standars are also standards for smal commercial and fishing vessels too..

I won't use them for fishing vessels as topsides of boat designed to ISO are not intended for structural loads specific for commercial fishing boats.