Brass or not, CE ratings??

[CatBuilder]

It is possible to get quality materials still, it's just a lot of work. You have to follow the supply chain.

For instance... my rudder posts are made from:

*316L Sandvik brand Stainless Tubing with 2" dia and 1/2" wall thickness
*Steel was mined in Sweden
*Tubing was made in Pennsylvania, USA

I spent $1200 for the pair. That sounds like a lot, but many years from now, when I don't have a broken off rudder in the middle of a storm that causes some catastrophe resulting in the total loss of the boat, I will be happy I paid my $1200 just for rudder posts.

[Stumble]

Soul,

The green coating on bronze is a form of oxidation caused by exposure to air or water. Like aluminium and titanium the oxidation on bronze is protective, in that is doesn't loose much strength, and it slows down further oxidation. This is unlike steel where rust flakes off.

[souljour2000]

That's what i suspected though i wasn't sure Stumble...I just knew for whatever reason that they shouldn't be cleaned and as long as there are no leaks...just leave them alone...I have heard that bronze can corrode underneath an otherwise good-looking patina but I have never had any issues with anything bronze on my boats thus yet...but they did use plywood backing plates on these old boats which must be replaced though I never "got around to it" on mine...though i have invested in some bungs finally and good twine to tie them off...The bronze turn buckles on my '71 seafarer 24 and my '66 Columbia 29 were original I 'm pretty sure and especially on the C-29 took good wind loads..without blinking...Now I don't know about how they make bronze now...with all the cost-cutting going on the last twenty-five years or so...but the bronze stuff I have dealt with on all my old boats was made before the '73 oil embargo which seems to be the beginning of the end of inexpensive good quality products in the USA at least and it's been a slow slide to "Crap-ville" ever since and it's gained pace in the last 20 years...especially last five or ten...I know this is no revelation to any of you but there it is just the same...

[Stumble]

Soul,

What really happened is manufacturers went from using zinc-less bronze to alloys that contain it. This was done primarily as a cost savings measure, but also because Commercial bronze contains it. As the marine market started borrowing more and more from other processes some of the specialty parts stopped being produced.

In large part because commercial users went to other materials (like titanium) instead, while the recreational marine market which is much more price sensitive than an oil refinery, or chemical processing plant just isn't willing to pay premium prices for better materials for the most part.

[souljour2000]

Good info stumble...so would you say the bronze fittings on 60's and early 70's boats could conceivably last a few more decades or more due to their purity...as long as backing plates are changed out regularly? Well-founded bronze seems pretty indestructible though of course a bit less shear strength than steel...longevity comes out the winner here in my book....I prefer" old bronze" for fittings wherever I can have it...especially for underwater fittings, turnbuckles, heck...if I could find a nice thick bronze rudder shaft....well...

[Stumble]

Sorry I missed this Soul.

Honestly I think old bronze, is well old. The question isn't when it was made, but what it was made with. A siliconized bronze part made today is going to be just as durable as a siliconized bronze part made 20 years ago. You just need to be sure what the alloy is of what you are buying.

Alternatively I would be happy to sell you a titanium fitting. Since this thread started I started working for a titanium manufacturer, and while our parts are more, they are not terrible.

A 3/4" titanium grade 5 through hull fitting for instance would run around $35. We don't currently have a matching ball valve, but we are working on it. So you would have to bond a bronze valve to a zinc to prevent galvanic corrosion. However the titanium bits are effectively corrosion proof in the marine environment.

[souljour2000]

Titanium getting cheaper eh?..I'm not sure about thru-hulls but for alot of other stuff...it sounds like it could be great. Maybe tangs and chainplates and the bolts that go with them...for instance...or cleats and sampson posts..possibly jib tracks,etc, etc, Good luck with the new company...sounds like a good line of work and very "21st century"....

[Stumble]

Hmmm, we currently have part numbers for cleats up to 12", tangs, chainplates, Samson post's, and a good bit of our business is actually in nuts and bolts.

We even make jib tracks, and spinnaker rings...

Got anything else you want.

[souljour2000]

Originally Posted by Stumble

Hmmm, we currently have part numbers for cleats up to 12", tangs, chainplates, Samson post's, and a good bit of our business is actually in nuts and bolts.

We even make jib tracks, and spinnaker rings...

Got anything else you want.

...Yeah...wire rope for halyards that last twice as long as steel...for only 25% more cost...Hmmm? Got Wire?

[TeddyDiver]

Online cataloque perhaps?

[Stumble]

Teddy,

Sorry I thought it was in my signature. Our complete, non-proprietary parts list is available online at http://www.alliedtitanium.com/produc...dc_Results.php .

You do not need to register in order to look through the catalog. If you are interested in ordering please let me know instead of registering direct with the company... It won't make much of a difference to you since our in house sales people are great, but I would prefer to get credit for the sale as opposed to it going to our general pool.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by souljour2000

...Yeah...wire rope for halyards that last twice as long as steel...for only 25% more cost...Hmmm? Got Wire?

Soul,

If we can solve the engineering issues, it would likely be lifetime of the boat... And the cost might not be that much higher. We could likely go to much smaller titanium wire than stainless, preserve the same strength, but even smaller and lighter. This down grade in size would also drive the cost down some as well...


Theoretically, and YOU MUST HAVE AN ENGINEER CHECK THIS. You would only need a cross section about 1/2 that of the stainless wire the titanium would replace. Because of the strength difference in the metals.