Is a yacht has to be design?

[dskira]

Originally Posted by daiquiri

This stuff is, imho, the apotheosis of what's been said so far, the perfect case-study for this thread:
http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat...es-yachts.html
And the best (or worst?) thing is that nearly EVERY yachting magazine these days talks about that floating house (I refuse to call it a ship). So, this case can teach us pretty eloquently that if you want to make a boat that the whole world will talk about, hire a designer specialized in luxury bags and shoes (sounds logical to me, how about you?) and forget about NA's and other monochrome-thinking people.

Interresting. This hull concept was develloped more than twenty years ago in Sweden. Two prototype of more than 4000 tons were built.
It seams working in very high range of displacement. We tryed the concept when the naval architect gave me the authorisation to use his finding for a yacht. It didn't work very well.
It will be an extremely unconfortable ride, and here Wally is going the wrong way. I know that, beleive me.
As for the "styling" Wally as usual is by far not my taste. Over designed style for egocentric Mediterranean buyer.
Money make people do strange things sometime, mostly this urge to be the first, the most advance, the latest the "trend maker"
All superlative are used and behind the glossy rendering a very empty quest for fame and fortune.
About shoes, do not forget that Ferragamo the shoemaker own Nautor Swan. Amusing.
Cheers
Daniel

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Kay9

You know, you guys are really hammering on the interior designers. However you tell me where you can find a sofa with a steel frame that will sit on a simi-rounded bulkhead with a cashmier (sp?) fabric top in the color blue the yacht owners wife wants?

These people have a definite function in the process. Without them you have someone that is not trained in thier field trying to do thier job, with often very bad results.

Im not an interior designer, nor am I a NA. However it seems to me that all you NA's out there that tell everyone how vital you are to the shipbuilding process, should not be so fast to blow off the others in the process.

After all I watched 6 guys in Oman build a 65 Wood Dhow without any plans, or power tools on a beach using wood from India. Im betting the nearest NA was 1000 miles away in Dubai.

My $0.02

K9

Yes, I agree that decorators (or interior designers, if you prefer to call them that) have a quite legitimate function. Unfortunately, their profession as practiced by those I've seen in action seems to be about 20% function and about 80% persuasion.

Way back when, I worked for Tony Duquette for a couple of years as his carpenter, handyman and general go-to guy for building projects. If you aren't familiar with him, he was the art world's version of a hired gun: he would design anything anyone paid him for. And he was good at it. His designs ranged from the sets for the play Camelot (for which he won a Tony) to the bottle for Midori liqueur. In 1951 he was honored with a one-man exhibition at the Louvre in Paris, that included furniture, jewelry, sculptures, paintings and tapestries, plus both costumes and sets for plays.

But when things were slow Tony did interior decorating, from permanent redo's down to decorating for parties. Believe you me, it was quite an education to listen to him convincing a gal with a Malibu beach house that she needed to pay him $10,000 to gussy up her house for a party, if she wanted it to be a success and impress the right people--and that was in 1979 dollars.

I remember being sent to collect a check for Tony one day, and the lady of the house gestured for me to have a seat while she went upstairs for her checkbook. The couch was so deep that I took a cushion leaning against one arm, and stuck it behind my back. When the lady came back down and saw what I had done, she was furious. As soon as I stood up she snatched the cushion from behind me, plumped it out and put it back in the precise position it had been in before....where I have no doubt Tony left it when he finished redecorating her home.

Although looks are important, naval architects and boat designers are held to certain crucial physical and performance standards. At the end of the process, their boats have to float and be suitable for their intended purpose. On the other hand, a much higher part of what interior decorators sell is simply intangible aesthetics.

Of course, if what you happen to want or need is a dhow from Oman built by guys who've basically done the same design over and over for generations, polishing it as they went, I suppose you're right; you don't need a naval architect. The design work has already been done, and they're experienced enough with it to know how far and in what ways it can successfully be modified or developed.

I happen to be putzing around with my own design for a 30' sharpie right now, but it certainly isn't because I don't respect professional designers. If I didn't have 150 years of work by professional builders and designers to distill my own design from, I wouldn't even try it. I'd hand it over to someone who does it for a living. However, I doubt I'll ever hire anyone to "do" my living room for me....

[Alik]

Interior design and decoration are not same.

Scope of interior design for boats and yachts is well presented in book of L.Hix (handbook for Westlawn's interior design course). Ergonomics, space planning, materials, furniture details, lighting fixtures, design of stairs, counters, lockers, fridge boxes... presentation renderigns is only 4(?) pages. Our interior designer calculates weigts and CG of interior items also! I would also add comfort assessment as part of interior design - lighting, accomodations, noise, climate, accelerations. This is good sample of difference between what is interior designer (producing complete interior design ready for manufacturing) and interior decorator (choosing color of wallpaper and making renderings only).

[yipster]

with one thing in comon grips

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Alik

Interior design and decoration are not same.

Scope of interior design for boats and yachts is well presented in book of L.Hix (handbook for Westlawn's interior design course). Ergonomics, space planning, materials, furniture details, lighting fixtures, design of stairs, counters, lockers, fridge boxes... presentation renderigns is only 4(?) pages. Our interior designer calculates weigts and CG of interior items also! I would also add comfort assessment as part of interior design - lighting, accomodations, noise, climate, accelerations. This is good sample of difference between what is interior designer (producing complete interior design ready for manufacturing) and interior decorator (choosing color of wallpaper and making renderings only).

You're right; there's a difference between an interior decorator and an interior designer, particularly in yachts. I guess I've seen too many onshore decorators try to upgrade their status by calling themselves designers.

It does remind me of a story I read years ago about some prominent family in New England, who brought a fashionable interior decorator aboard their heirloom catboat to spiff it up. He supposedly frowned, pointed at the centerboard trunk and told them, "oh dear....this will simply have to go."

[peter radclyffe]

Originally Posted by troy2000

One of the primary functions of any interior decorator, or other artsy designer in any medium, is that of convincing the customer that his/her judgment is completely worthless, thereby making the designer indispensable.

I was once doing some finish work in a new house when the furniture for a boy's bedroom was delivered. There were three pieces of furniture, and three walls they could go against. And the homeowner's wife was actually crying, because her interior decorator wasn't there to tell her which piece of furniture should go against which wall....now there was a designer who was good at his job.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not for a moment putting marine architects or their ilk in the same category as interior decorators for airhead housewives.

does she have a handbook to tell her when to enjoy her decor, did she have a wind up key in her back, or does she run on batteries, what a moron

[peter radclyffe]

Originally Posted by Kay9

You know, you guys are really hammering on the interior designers. However you tell me where you can find a sofa with a steel frame that will sit on a simi-rounded bulkhead with a cashmier (sp?) fabric top in the color blue the yacht owners wife wants?

These people have a definite function in the process. Without them you have someone that is not trained in thier field trying to do thier job, with often very bad results.

Im not an interior designer, nor am I a NA. However it seems to me that all you NA's out there that tell everyone how vital you are to the shipbuilding process, should not be so fast to blow off the others in the process.

After all I watched 6 guys in Oman build a 65 Wood Dhow without any plans, or power tools on a beach using wood from India. Im betting the nearest NA was 1000 miles away in Dubai.

My $0.02

K9

never mind all that , what colour were the dhows curtains

[Kay9]

Green

[peter radclyffe]

Originally Posted by dskira

Interresting. This hull concept was develloped more than twenty years ago in Sweden. Two prototype of more than 4000 tons were built.
It seams working in very high range of displacement. We tryed the concept when the naval architect gave me the authorisation to use his finding for a yacht. It didn't work very well.
It will be an extremely unconfortable ride, and here Wally is going the wrong way. I know that, beleive me.
As for the "styling" Wally as usual is by far not my taste. Over designed style for egocentric Mediterranean buyer.
Money make people do strange things sometime, mostly this urge to be the first, the most advance, the latest the "trend maker"
All superlative are used and behind the glossy rendering a very empty quest for fame and fortune.
About shoes, do not forget that Ferragamo the shoemaker own Nautor Swan. Amusing.
Cheers
Daniel

your a master of the understatement Daniel