Worse design

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by Loveofsea

I think one of the most definitive example of an inherently bad design would ba a boat that suddenly dives below the surface on calm water, throwing a passenger off the bow

-in that video it is clear the the occupants knew what was coming up and prepared for it.

Originally Posted by Loveofsea

What th

Zappi. can understand a modified hull being capable of doing that, but a production boat should not do this while while simply cruising down a river, or so i think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFY9x...eature=related
...

Watch it again and listen to the audio. You will then hear, just before the event "right now" and "I can't watch"

Any boat can be pushed down at the bow: try sitting on the bow of a kayak. I respect your wish to design out or legislate against the human potential for foolishness, and it's true that a mishandled boat can get you into trouble, but those folks were not caught by surprise neither were they in trouble, they were just having fun.

[Easy Rider]

Ancient,
RE: Attachment 40072. I agree .. very nice lines but that boat has a hooked bottom aft and should burry it's bow pronto. Looks like it should be very good at going fast but in fact it looks like it would be a very good example of form NOT following function.

Easy Rider

[frank smith]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Ancient,
RE: Attachment 40072. I agree .. very nice lines but that boat has a hooked bottom aft and should burry it's bow pronto. Looks like it should be very good at going fast but in fact it looks like it would be a very good example of form NOT following function.

Easy Rider

That would be my patented "insta trim" hull form , What cannot be seen is the
warping bottom that is controlled by a complex computer program . It can at some speeds gain feed back from the waves and provide thrust from what would be wasted energy .

Frank

[Easy Rider]

Frank,
You mean the bottom changes shape while underway??? It looks like soon hulls will become more complicated than outboards. If you've figured out a way to do that I can see why you patented it. Star wars on the water. I'm impressed.

Easy Rider

[frank smith]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

Frank,
You mean the bottom changes shape while underway??? It looks like soon hulls will become more complicated than outboards. If you've figured out a way to do that I can see why you patented it. Star wars on the water. I'm impressed.

Easy Rider

Easy , thanks for your compliment on my cartoon , it would be nice if it was that easy. I dont know much about that style of hull , but I am looking for info.

Frank

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by powerabout

The OZ boat broke in half with John Bertrand at the helm in Dago ( in deep water)
Went down in about a minute.

I would agree the whole world of sailing knows about that i'm sure its on youtube

Yes, a boat from OZ did sink in SD. Yes, it can be found on Youtube.

However, it is not a 12 meter, as claimed by Gonzo. Neither of the videos he introduced are of 12 meters.

As I stated earlier, no 12 meter broke in half and sank while racing, as Gonzo had claimed.

This is the trouble with the kind of factually incorrect nonsense Gonzo posts. When reading this site the reader should become more educated, not more ignorant. So based on this tread it seems there are people who have read Gonzo's post about 12 meters breaking in half and sinking, and believe it. Now they will carry that "fact" forward on to other threads and sites, infecting others with this ignorant "fact".

[gonzo]

Paul B: I started a thread just for you. Please reffer all your personal attacks to that thread.

[Loveofsea]

Anctient kayaker

the single most important function of a boat hull is to keep water out of the inside of the hull (water out/air in!)

my point is that a well designed hull should NEVER BE ABLE TIO DIVE BELOW THE SURFACE NO MATTER WHAT THE DRIVER DOES---Period.

Suppose uncle Jack turns the controll over to johnnie while he makes a sammich---and Betty is in the bow with her 6 month old baby--johnny drops the throttle for a sec and then hits it again --now the baby is in the water because the bow SOMEHOW dove below the surface@!

Anyone who would accept this deadly design flaw as just as a handling charactistic needs to reevaluate the way they view the world around them. This is an aberration, not acceptable to those of us who ACTUALLY value human life!

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Loveofsea

Anctient kayaker

the single most important function of a boat hull is to keep water out of the inside of the hull (water out/air in!)

my point is that a well designed hull should NEVER BE ABLE TIO DIVE BELOW THE SURFACE NO MATTER WHAT THE DRIVER DOES---Period.

Suppose uncle Jack turns the controll over to johnnie while he makes a sammich---and Betty is in the bow with her 6 month old baby--johnny drops the throttle for a sec and then hits it again --now the baby is in the water because the bow SOMEHOW dove below the surface@!

Anyone who would accept this deadly design flaw as just as a handling charactistic needs to reevaluate the way they view the world around them. This is an aberration, not acceptable to those of us who ACTUALLY value human life!

I repeat: do you also think automobiles should be designed so no one can steer them off the road into a tree, or give them too much throttle and miss a curve? Or brake too hard on ice and spin out?

I'll make you a bet, skiff boy. Give me the helm of your precious home-made boat for an afternoon, and tell me what you're willing to ante up against me being able to bury the bow. I have no doubt at all I can stuff it into the water one way or another, if I put my mind to it. Will you give me the boat, if I manage to prove it has the same 'deadly design flaw' you're railing against in other designs?

Judging from what I've gathered from your posts, you have a legitimate right to be proud of what you've done on the water, the way your boat handles, and the skills you've developed in handling it. Why don't you settle for that, instead of continuing this idiotic badmouthing of boat designs and designers worldwide?

[powerabout]

Originally Posted by Loveofsea

Anctient kayaker

my point is that a well designed hull should NEVER BE ABLE TIO DIVE BELOW THE SURFACE NO MATTER WHAT THE DRIVER DOES---Period.

Could be BUT it hasn't been invented yet

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Loveofsea

Suppose uncle Jack turns the controll over to johnnie while he makes a sammich---and Betty is in the bow with her 6 month old baby--johnny drops the throttle for a sec and then hits it again --now the baby is in the water because the bow SOMEHOW dove below the surface@!

I believe courts in this country would consistently uphold the premise that if Uncle Jack is driving a car or a boat, he has no business at all turning the wheel over to little Johnnie while he makes a sandwich--whether bloated Betty is present or not.

Nor have I ever been in a boat where simply dropping the throttle for a sec and hitting it again would bury the bow.

Even you don't believe the bs you're spouting about bows inexplicably diving under the surface in calm waters. So why do you keep pounding away at it and pissing people off? Are you really that hard up for entertainment?

[gonzo]

When you hit the throttle hard the bow sticks up in the air.

[ancient kayaker]

Originally Posted by Loveofsea

... my point is that a well designed hull should NEVER BE ABLE TIO DIVE BELOW THE SURFACE NO MATTER WHAT THE DRIVER DOES---Period ...

-yes, I got that. You have repeated it several times. I always though the titannic was a reasonably well-designed hull for its time, apart from the excessively small rudder. After all, it stayed afloat for hours after being smashed into an iceberg at full speed by a skipper who was all balls and beard. But down it went, at the bow no less, and all the "driver" did was rip open a hole big enough to row a small boat in and out again. How sad you were not around to correct the errors.

Strangely, I used to have a lot of respect for designers whose boats can take that kind of treatment and still pop back up to the surface ready for more of the same. Clearly I am naive and still have a lot to learn.

I am also shamed to admit that my home-built and designed canoe has the same unnecessary flaw, push down on the bow and down she will go. I realise where I went wrong now. I should have made her ten times as big in every direction. Then it would have taken 1,000 people to push her down, but there would have been space for only 100 people at the bow. Bidda bing, bidda boom! Of course, I might have had a bit of a problem with car-topping ...

[gonzo]

Come back, come back......

[messabout]

Are you guys actually enjoying this pissing contest? All that snipeing may be amusing but it is not a productive pursuit. Spirited disagreement and sound arguments are useful and informative, but personal attack is not very useful and it quickly becomes tiresome.