Why sail over power? Why power over sail?

[mackid068]

Oh, Fred, by the way, do you sail or power in CT?

In addition, Fred, your profile says that you are "attempting design of higher speed trawler , 12 to 14K cruise with 3 or 4 gph fuel bill." Please do! Sounds good to me! Make it safe and enclosed rear pilothouse please! Nordhavn-esqe! Sorry, I just got excited..

[Portager]

Sharpii2;

This is the wrong form for your political views and therefore I’ll make no further comment.

As for displacement boats, there are many manufacturers that build displacement and semi-displacement boats, however most are too wide for their length and too heavy to be efficient very. I’m going with a custom design.

Mackid068;

Getting a little personal aren’t you? It doesn’t matter how old I am, I’m tired of tending sails and freezing my #*% off in an open cockpit. I’m entitled to my opinion and since I paying for my boat, I going to get what I want.

Fast Fred;

Your right about the oil prices being a temporary condition; however that’s no reason to be an energy hog. Plus you never know when the prices will spike again.

Sails for Portager would cost over $10,000 which will buy at least 5,000 gallons to 7,500 gallons of fuel (volume discount) and provide a range of 20,000 to 30,000 Nmi. Looks like a push on cost without considering maintenance cost, time spent tacking and freezing your #*& off.

Regards;
Mike Schooley

[Willallison]

Originally Posted by Portager

Sails for Portager would cost over $10,000 which will buy at least 5,000 gallons to 7,500 gallons of fuel (volume discount) and provide a range of 20,000 to 30,000 Nmi. Looks like a push on cost without considering maintenance cost, time spent tacking and freezing your #*& off.

...and that's before you take into consideration the cost of all the rigging and extra structure required to support it. A friend recently looked at a 45ft sailboat that hadn't had its mast etc installed - over 50K (AUD).
Besides in Mike's case, he's talking about a 48 foot semi-liveaboard trailerboat. I'd like to see a 48 foot trailerable sailboat.....
Further, sails or not, 99% ot people would want an engine installed in their boat - even if it's only for back-up. So little, if any savings to be found there. Sailors also have a habit of neglecting their engines, so buying an old sailboat will not only see you have to replace the rags, but probably the machinery as well!

[tom28571]

Originally Posted by Willallison

...and that's before you take into consideration the cost of all the rigging and extra structure required to support it. A friend recently looked at a 45ft sailboat that hadn't had its mast etc installed - over 50K (AUD).
Besides in Mike's case, he's talking about a 48 foot semi-liveaboard trailerboat. I'd like to see a 48 foot trailerable sailboat.....
Further, sails or not, 99% ot people would want an engine installed in their boat - even if it's only for back-up. So little, if any savings to be found there. Sailors also have a habit of neglecting their engines, so buying an old sailboat will not only see you have to replace the rags, but probably the machinery as well!

You are both right that the perceived cost advantage of sail is often just that, a perception. Doesn't have to be that way though. Both sail and power boats can be built inexpensively by a proper scavenger. The one thing that makes them different is operating cost of fuel. That is a hard one to get around if the boat is to be used for extensive cruising. For the way most use their boats, it doesn't make much difference in the total cost.

Oh yeah Will, ask Mike what he intends to use to tow Portager with. It won't fit in your garage for sure. A Freightliner or similar, if I remember correctly.

[Milan]

I'm into sailing my self, but I can understand that for the people who aren't really infected by the sailing bug, but still wont a boat for long distance voyaging, powerboat can be a better choice. (Or one of sail / motor combinations). If low fuel consumption is important, then boat should be of different type then modern powerboats. Resistance must be minimized. That means low boat with a little windage and long, narrow hull for minimum wave making resistance. (Length/beam = 1/4 or 1/5). Such a boat could be quite fast as well, with a cruising speed of around 10 knots, which is a lot for a voyaging. If sailing to windward isn't important, there are quite a few low aspect sail plans which could sail very well on other courses and be very economical to build and maintain, much cheaper then contemporary sailing boats rigs.

That concept is nothing new, early power boats from the time of engines of low power / weight ratio where built that way. L. F. Hereshoff and George Buhler among the others, have such designs.
http://www.georgebuehler.com/photothumbs.html (Take a closer look at the Pilgrim, Idlewild, Ellemaid…).

Regardless of fuel price, efficient boat with small powering needs makes sense for long distance voyaging. It will be a valid concept even in future, for the new solution which technology might bring us, as diesel electric, hydrogen or something else.

Milan