Why are barges not hydrodynamic?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by joceline, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

  2. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    I reckon that there must be some old barges that could be bought cheaply. One needs only to mount a mobile home on the barge to have a most functional live aboard. If the barge is somewhat larger than the mobil home the occupant could have a yard....Get tired of the neighbors, or they become annoying, then just move on to a new location. Might even be able to stay a few steps ahead of the tax man.
     
  3. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Havn't seen too much weird on a barge. It's always is a shock to see four or five Bristol Bay gillnetters and some modular homes going by in the spring. The bottom of a barge is weird to see.
    Logs loaded in bundles started at the outboard side and working in, but not making it.
    A mate with almost no experience on a tractor... This one is going to take some explaining... start with a little background: Crowley has the ship escort and docking contract in Valdez. There were not enough females in power positions so they put one on a new egg-beater tractor, http://www.voithturbo.com/vt_en_pua_marine_vspropeller.htm , expecting her to gain experience on the job. It is the Master's job to get on a barge for delicate operations and radio to the mate "easy", "all-stop", etc.. Well, she's got seven thousand horsepower and a bit of a confusing set of controls (nothing like a conventional) and on the hip of a barge. When the Master radioed "stop", as they were easing to the dock, the green mate took that to mean "stop forward progress" and vectored to thrust 180° from the direction of momentum. Of course, on the hip of a 450' barge, the first thing that happened was that the inertia started to swing the barge rather than stop it. When the master, with consternation in his voice said, "what are you doing - STOP!", she thought she wasn't backing hard enough. A long story short, parted 10" docking line (the first one up), and a 450' barge doing brodies before the master could spit out "all power in the neutral position" after diving out of the way of parting lines. No one was hurt - but close. If a male had done that, he would never be allowed to touch the controls again...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNPwB9Sxav4 Turn the sound off. At 1:08 is a pic of the drive units of this type of tug (the red ones). The fins change pitch just like a helicopter to vector thrust. They are the most manueverable type of tug and are capable of more than six knots straight sideways.
    Not too much weird in the way of cargo. Trains, containers... Oh, here's a weird one. A guy went to an Auction in Arizona to buy a "Plymouth Superbird" in perfect condition. It was weird to see his reaction when it arrived in Kenai after some knuckleheads in LA put chain binders on the wing to secure it for the ride (really).
    beineke_71_mopar_super_bird_33_.jpg
     
  4. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Oh come on, that wing is structural, it doubles as a roll bar for crying out loud.

    (Kidding, kidding, just kidding...)

    -Tom
     
  5. Pierre R
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    Pierre R Senior Member

    That's easy, my mother-in-law.
     
  6. Village_Idiot
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    Village_Idiot Senior Member

    I would imagine! There weren't too many of those Superbirds built, think they go for six figures easily in mint condition at auction. The wing and nosecone weren't very functional on the street, but they worked too well at NASCAR - the downforce generated at 200mph produced premature wear on the tires from rubbing on the fenderwells - that's why you see the later ones with scoops covering holes on top of the fenders (general public thought it was for brake cooling and aerodynamics, but was really just to give more clearance for the tires).
     
  7. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    THAT'S funny!

    Does leave me wondering what your Mother-in-law was doing on a barge though... never mind, it's not important, lol.

    -Tom
     
  8. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    And I thought UPS damaged things! Ouch!
     
  9. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Also, the male in charge of that whole tractor tug shebang never would have left a male who was still at that level of training at the helm but may have made a different, and not so responsible decision due to her femaleness. The captain is always in charge, no matter what. It's like after a collision the captain who says "Don't look at me, I was in my bunk."
    One of the best of Puget Sound's ferry captains in a woman. She's the one who trains the others. Any person in charge of powerful machinery needs training and supervision until competent.
    That's the captain's responsibility, and the hiring person's responsibility to make sure the prospective mate is trained in tractor tugs, or is getting on the job experience, which seems to mean spinning brodies with a huge barge. Must have been scary to see. Watched an out of control MikiMiki take out a breakwater once, but that was a long time ago. Funny, an idiot let his untrained wife drive it and sure enough she took out a row of pilings with many onlookers scrambling to safety.
    I'm not going to let young teenagers, male or female, drive my motorcycle without a lot of training, or my tractor tug (the one in my dreams that pushes the supertanker into her berth like putting an egg in an egg carton. Just drop the lines on the bollards, boys....).
     
  10. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Don't get me wrong, no problem with a female touch - just a forced placement of said female. If she had been male, she would have been second mate for years first and developed a trust. Yes, the captain should have said "no way, Boss" but politics are hell. Same with natives. Nothing against them but if an Alaska native wants to get hired by Alyeska or Crowley, they are on, qualified or not. Affirmative action or racial preference is stupid.
    You would like my old ship-docking tug, the Bulwark, 7,000 HP, three huge rudders, two huge props, A Ferrari afloat and delicate as a butterfly. I could not find a picture online.
     
  11. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Is this it? I can't move the picture. Click on the pic to enlarge it.
    http://www.tugboatinformation.com/tug.cfm?id=1091
    [​IMG]
     
  12. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    I agree with you about putting unqualified people in positions of responsibility before they are ready, for whatever reason. A political reason is the worst, and most common of all. Just look at the committee heads in the new congress.
    My dear friend, Capt Harold Sommer of Crowley Maritime just passed at age 86. Captain and Engineer for 50 years, skilled yacht restorer of the 80' schooner WANDERBIRD and sloop FREDA, last steam tug capt/engineer license on the bay, delicate handler of MikiMiki 130' single screw old fashioned tug SEA PRINCE for over 20 of those years. I watched him walk it into a tiny berth a couple of times. Enterprise diesel, direct-reversing, no neutral, and he made it look sooooooo easy. He had several female mates and engineers aboard towards the end of his career and I remember his thoughts at the time. This was the early 80s I think. At first it was all negative, then a year later he said one girl engineer was the best he'd ever had and almost as good as him, then another learned to drive the SEA PRINCE well and make good decisions about what NOT to do, which he said was the most important thing, like an airplane pilot. Then he started passing over his old time deck hands for a girl that could throw the heaving line "from here to Oakland" and knew she didn't know it all, unlike the guys aboard.
    SF bay is all tractor tugs now. Whenever a dangerous cargo comes in, it's required to have one hooked up to the stern, just in case. I won't argue. Watching a TT work is just wonderful, backwards, sideways, ahead, it's all the same and right now! There's a couple big Alaska tugs hauled in our yard now. I could walk through the prop shrouds without bending over. Never worked on anything like that. My biggest tug job was a mere 50' harbor tug with three 6-71s pushing a 100' general marine contracting crane barge. I was a 'pile butt' and set chokers, pulled the leads into place, and got showered with creosote when the hammer drove the things into the mud. At least I didn't have to deal with Alaska weather. It was hard enough as it was.
     
  13. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Thanks guys. I knew the Sea Prince once, or heard stories. I don't remember, as I never set foot on her. Funny to see the Bulwark towing a tandem - I never thought of her as a particularly good long haul tug. Many good ship handlers come out of San Francisco. I think they are very active there (thus more practice) relative to here
    I understand why they use the pushboats on protected water but why don't they just use larger barges rather than rafting? Do a bunch a little barges just offer flexibility of cargo?
    I've been looking for twenty years for the right barge at the right price to put a house on. It's not as easy as one would think but avoiding taxes and bad neighborhoods is a great idea. Beware of trying to move it around yourself with too small of boat however - We lost a 53' Hoquiam and crew trying to move a 200' barge from here to Seward a few years back... They found the back of the boat still attached to the beached barge. A lot of jerking forces if no catenary. In other words, if not big enough for proper towing gear, don't do it.
     
  14. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Knew an old old Finn salmon troller who lived on his 1912 fishboat, name of Matt, and this was the 1970s. Told me a story when he was a young buck in the 1930s and working on a wooden, flat bottomed, twin screw (Atlas diesels) tug about 65 feet on deck.
    He was deckhand/mate (crew of 2) and they were towing a loaded gravel barge on a short string up a long winding slough at 2 am. My informant said he turned the helm over to the captain and hit his bunk. They had another hour of running before they got to the unloading berth. Matt hit the bunk and just got to sleep when he felt the tug run hard aground. Being a VERY FAST thinker he levitated out of the forepeak and over the side in his underwear as the barge came aboard over the stern, crushing the house structure and killing the sleeping captain at the helm. Matt found himself in waist deep water among the tule reeds looking at a crushed sunken tug and a securely parked barge inches from his nose.
    Rules of boats:
    1. Don't be stupid.
    2. **** happens.
    3. Bring beer.
    Last year a boat I have done a lot of finish interior stuff on, a 110' ex-minesweeper in the Glacier Bay charter trade, hit the cliffs at full throttle about 5 miles from home at the end of a charter. The mate/engineer was alone in the pilothouse and fell asleep. Any other boat would have been demolished but minesweepers were made to take BIG explosions, so she survived and didn't even need that many planks replaced!
    Second rule always kicks in, especially if you ignore the first rule, which they did. Ship had a rule: always two people in pilot house and the mate broke it, fell asleep and hit a cliff with the starboard side of the ship.
    1. Don't. Be. Stupid. But people will, every time. It's the most predictable thing on earth.
    When I was in CG in SF a guy bought a new Boston Whaler Outrage, the latest thing at the time. He boasted to all his friends about how wonderfully seaworthy it was and then went out on a very bad day fishing and took his entire family of 4 along. Long after dark someone called the CG and our crew of 3 took off into the dark and rising wind in a 44' rollover boat, CG44347.
    We found the missing boat after a long search on the black, crashing bar and it was fine. The people however had been washed out and we never found a single body, though it was 24 hours of searching in very bad conditions before we tied up at the dock again.
    This happens way too often, because people are basically stupid and arrogant is my only guess.
     

  15. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Mark, if you want to put a house on a barge, start with a new one. Boats and Harbors (the yellow sheet) shows a lot of good barge builders who are hungry, very very hungry for a job. A nice 40 x 90 foot barge with rakes and skegs so it tows good, real strong generator and electric power windlass for anchors and three electric capstans for warping, plus spud wells and electric hoists for the spuds. Build a nice two and a half story house with boat and snowmobile shed and still have a yard, plus the entire 8 foot deep barge hull for a basement. Put the garden on the roof where it's always in what little sun you get and that would be pretty darn nice. The dream house boat, but start with a new barge, like a house with a good foundation. Every steel structure connected to salt water has a limited design life so start at the beginning of that.
     
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