What does anyone think of this company's boat desighn?

[JEM]

Anyone see the bottom picture?



Doesn't this conflict with what a drift boat is supposed to do? I thought they were meant to ride over current so you can stay in one place with minimal effort while the river is running under you?

This bottom would work ok if the longitudinal centerline always parallel with the current. But if you were turned sideways, it would grab it and take you on a ride.

Those chines would also be a spot for rocks and logs to grab onto instead of deflecting off a flat bottom.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

[CET]

Originally Posted by JEM

Anyone see the bottom picture?



Doesn't this conflict with what a drift boat is supposed to do? I thought they were meant to ride over current so you can stay in one place with minimal effort while the river is running under you?

This bottom would work ok if the longitudinal centerline always parallel with the current. But if you were turned sideways, it would grab it and take you on a ride.

Those chines would also be a spot for rocks and logs to grab onto instead of deflecting off a flat bottom.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

You're not missing anything, JEM. Your assessment is correct. A flat bottom, chine to chine, is by far the most efficient in most river rowing scenarios.

The problem here is that ever since Hyde introduced the radiused transom and subsequently dominated the drift boat market, the competition has been scrambling to respond with anything that could compete. Clackacraft tried with their “tunnel hull” design. Others, including startup RO have introduced gimmicks to get customers’ attention, but in reality those gimmicks, like Clackcraft’s “tunnel hull” offer nothing of substance and in fact may be detrimental to performance. Actually, Hyde’s radiused transom really doesn’t offer anything in terms of performance (it IS attractive, though) 99% of the time, but perception is reality, as they say. It’s all marketing.

The truth is I think the RO looks like a nice drift boat and if the price is right, a comparatively good decision. Clackacraft needs to work on that flimsy bottom before I would ever look at one of their boats. But the major manufacturers all use woven roving/matt/polyester resin/gel coat construction, which results in a heavy and not-so-durable hull. I believe anyone serious about a drift boat should consider building one with stitch-and-glue plywood/epoxy-fiberglass construction. You’ll get a lighter, more durable, more responsive drift boat that way.

CET

[safewalrus]

CET why thankee for that compliment! Unfortunately your NOT billy goat Gruff so get the f*** of my Bridge! in the meaantime your are still unfortunately a 'Yank' so your still number one for pee taking (even if unlike a lot of your genrie you can actually take it!)

Luv and stuf

the walrus troll!

[JEM]

Originally Posted by CET

I believe anyone serious about a drift boat should consider building one with stitch-and-glue plywood/epoxy-fiberglass construction. You’ll get a lighter, more durable, more responsive drift boat that way.

CET

Wow...there's a statement I didn't expect to hear! Although I think you're correct.

You'd need some protection like graphite coating and perhaps some thicker glass to shed those rocks and things. But unless it's solid fiberglass hull throughout, I don't seeing any cored layup being as stiff or tough as something with marine plywood.

Perhaps we'll see the advent of a roto-molded, plastic drift boat.

[Chris Ostlind]

Ask and you shall receive.

http://www.hogislandboatworks.com/index.html

Chris Ostlind

[JEM]

lol...well there you go!

460 pounds? Wonder how that compares to other drift boat weights.

[CET]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

CET why thankee for that compliment! Unfortunately your NOT billy goat Gruff so get the f*** of my Bridge! in the meaantime your are still unfortunately a 'Yank' so your still number one for pee taking (even if unlike a lot of your genrie you can actually take it!)

Luv and stuf

the walrus troll!

You're still just peeing into the wind, walrus troll.

XOXOXO

[CET]

Originally Posted by JEM

lol...well there you go!

460 pounds? Wonder how that compares to other drift boat weights.

That weight is pretty typical for a production boat.

Here's a link to the Montana Boat Buiders site. Jason, the owner, builds and sells plans for some of the most beautiful wood composite drift boats anywhere. I think one of his 16 footers (standard length) is nearly 100 lbs lighter than that roto boat.

http://www.montanaboatbuilders.com/

[CET]

Originally Posted by JEM

You'd need some protection like graphite coating and perhaps some thicker glass to shed those rocks and things. But unless it's solid fiberglass hull throughout, I don't seeing any cored layup being as stiff or tough as something with marine plywood.

JEM - I forgot to mention...you're right about the need for a graphite/epoxy bottom and lots of fiberglass on the bottom as well. It protects the bottom and slides over boulders more smoothly.

[Chris Ostlind]

My experience with these boats is that the all-up weight is but one of the issues and it's a relatively small one, save for when you have to hump the boat over a sand bar.

In fact, a boat with some respectable mass can actually do better in the rapids than can a really light boat. Light boats can be hung-up on rocks and then the fun starts. A heavier boat can sometimes have enough momentum to just cruise right over the shallower sections. Remember that most of the propulsion is being provided by the current of the river. The dude doing the rowing will be working to position the boat for fishing and not to drive it downstream.

I would think that a plastic boat of the poly type could actually make for a pretty good river boat. They are amazingly durable, very low maintenance and can be repaired with only a little acquired knowledge.

Disadvantages are typically the aesthetic intrusion of a Cro-Magnon type of plasticky hull in a world of precision and control and the feel and the sound of the boat in the water is different than one of wood or glass composite.

Understand that I own three plastic boats for whitewater and rough expedition paddling work and for some applications, there are no better solutions than a polyethylene hull. You can flat-out beat the crap out of them and they just sit there like it was nothing at all. Smacking submerged boulders in a fully loaded, wood, glass and epoxy boat has its limits of endurance and the maintenance, after the fact, will also be an issue.

I think these guys are on to something as long as the hull form is suitable and well designed for the job AND they can offer price point advantages based on the less expensive material and process work after molding. I suspect they are competitive with other boat manufacturers, but I looked at the typical pricing for the Hog Island boats and found the numbers do not reflect the pricing advantages that one would expect from rotomolding.

Charlie can address that scenario more effectively, as this is his area of interest.

Chris

[CET]

You make some good points about drift boats, Chris. A light-weight boat, as you said, can be a liability sometimes. In addition to the things you mentioned, wind is another factor that should be considered. It’s an ever-present companion on Western rivers and can literally turn the sides of a drift boat into sails, sometimes even canceling out the influence of the river current and making for a difficult day of downstream rowing. A little extra weight can help turn things in the favor of the current.

Also, as you alluded to, the weight of the boat itself is not very significant when you consider the big picture. Most of the guys I fish with are big guys weighing more than 200 lbs, and I fall into that category as well. Add to the equation gear, food and drinking water and the total weight can be more than 1,200 lbs. An additional 50 - 80 lbs of hull weight ends up being insignificant.

The hull form is just as important an influence on how the boat will handle. Not having rowed either an RO or a Hog Island I can’t personally speak to how they would compare to others, but the one RO owner I talked with on the river really likes his boat.

The roto-molded plastic hull construction would seem to be very durable and could be a real benefit on rivers where rocks and boulders are common, like the Green River here in Utah. I know I expend a lot of energy avoiding them as the gel coat finish on my Hyde’s chines doesn’t like them much. You’ll see a lot of white on the upper-most edges of barely-submerged rocks in the Green River. That white is gel coat scraped from the bottoms and chine edges of drift boats. The nice thing about gel coat is that it allows a boat slide off of rocks relatively easily. I don’t know how the plastic would be in that regard. With his experience, Chris may be able to speak to that. I do know that without some sort of coating on the bottom, aluminum drift boats have a hell of a time getting over rocks.

Charlie

[Chris Ostlind]

Great point about the strong up-canyon winds in the afternoons on the Green, Charlie.

I've been tinkering with the idea of a wooden drifter with a nice sheet of UHMW mounted to the bottom with stainless screws and embedded, stainless T-nuts. UHMW is self lubricating plastic that is fairly impervious to abrasion and would give the boat bottom a real sliding surface on rocks. When the bottom panel takes too many hits, you just unscrew the fasteners, use the old sheet as a mounting hole template and rig-up a new sheet of the stuff and get after it again.

I haven't done this yet, so it's still in the "sounds good to me" phase of development, but other parts I've made from the stuff have worked well for similar applications (skid plate for an Observed Trials motorcycle) UHMW has properties similar to polyethylene, so it does make sense on that level.

I suggested this solution to the guys at EMR drift boats when they had their factory shop just off the freeway in SLC, but they didn't adopt it. Oh well, can't win them all.

I've repaired all kinds of drift boat chines in my shop and it's always about late season rock garden voyaging when the owner just had to squeeze another day on the river out of the boat. Of course, they didn't land anyhting, so it makes me wonder why it wouldn't have been better to get the waders on and walk the bank a bit for some solitude.

Chris

[CET]

The Rock Garden can be tough at low water! I’ve certainly nailed more than a few rocks there. UHMW plastic is great stuff. I’m not aware of any material (within reach of drift boat builders) that offers its combination of toughness and slickness. Nothing sticks to it, including epoxy, so as you know it must be secured with screws. One thing to consider with a wooden boat is that those screws will created many little micro-pathways by which water can enter your laminate/wood.

Some builders are now using a spray-on truck bed liner made by Line-X. I believe its use on drift boats was pioneered by Jason at Montana Boat Builders. It’s extremely tough stuff and reasonably slick when applied correctly. The downside is it’s a bit pricy.

Probably the most common bottom option among wooden drift boat builders is the addition of graphite powder to the final coat of epoxy. It adds some abrasion resistance and slickness to the bottom and it’s watertight.

I always seem to catch more fish when I’m wading, but I enjoy the rowing as much as the fishing (unless the wind is bad) so these days I usually drag the boat out to the river. I must admit it’s partly due to laziness.

Charlie

[CET]

Chris - I just re-sent an e-mail I originally sent last week. Please let me know if you get it. I have a hunch my e-mls are not making it through for one reason or another.

Charlie