What design features make life aboard comfortable & practical for females?

Who said anything about throwing away the "chart table", read the posts! We're all talking about reducing it to a useful size to suit modern conditions!

Fred if we we're always worrying about IF the badies come over the hill we'd still be swinging through the trees and the US of A would not have been discovered/invented - to frightened to leave the coast in case ...... (some might say that's a bonus, I wouldn't, but you see were I'm coming from?)

Oh and to keep Paddy happy, yotties should NOT be allowed to have flares, after all some would then use 'em to summon the lifeboat because they have to be home in time for the latest 'soap opera' - happy now Paddy?

To go back to the theme of this thread, how's about combining Wilma's Breakfast bar with the back row of the Chart table to give a useful (if jam stained) area? Two abreast with stools (fixed to the floor/deck) has possibilities, and to avoid the 'jam' hinge a sheet of perspex over the front of the bar to cover the (folded) paper chart, as well as putting the chart in a useful position it makes a great 'underlay' for the table and the perspex keeps the jam off the chart! Put it opposite the galley next to the hatch and you have a functional nav/watchkeepers area (in which you can make your lone meal at night) not to far from the great outside! I like the idea anyway - what you all think? Wilma will it pass muster?

 

I agree with Paddy about the importance of having a table usable for traditional navigating but I don't think a specific large chart table is still a necessity our days even though you still need a navigating station where lives all the electronics. At that station it is still good to have somewhat a surface to take notes even if it's not a full size table. My ideal navigation station for long passages, is completely isolated from the rest of the living space, the on watch crew doesn't disturb the sleep of the off watch and each can control the lighting and sounds they need. My electronic navigation tools would all be on alarms to warn me of changes and I would have bunks in that area so I can snooze when possible close to the bells and whistle while on watch.

On the “what if mode” I think it is still absolutely necessary for a cruising vessel to have a large table sufficiently flat and smooth to trace a strait line across it while navigating. No reason why it couldn't be the dinning table if it's smooth, but the bed doesn't do it.
No need for an end of the world attitude to see the necessity to keep traditional navigation as back up. As quick example, it's not unreasonable to mention lightning strikes. I saw what it could do on a boat, in some cases you can forget all the electronic backup.

On a more philosophic mind, if we consider we don't need to keep the ability to navigate with paper on our boats anymore then why even know how to do it? At least have a surface where when your kids, grand kids, friends, ask you about navigation you can teach them. The upcoming generation loves all the electronics but seem to rely on it too much without understanding the basics behind it. All you guys commenting on the chart table probably have had to used traditional navigation before, therefore have a good understanding of it. Contentiously or not your critic and analyze of the data is different then if you never manually plotted a route. If your computer crashes you won't panic, you have peace from your knowledge and perfect understanding of the situation. So lets keep in mind those that are starting in the navigating world should have the same chances then us to get comfortable.
Wilma really should learn to find her way with paper as part of the thinks to handle for the sailing life. To do so she will need a table where John will teach her to use charts as sailing.
Wilma, you can't fully rely on John. One day he might wake up, lets say, with a bad tooth infection and be knocked out by evening, needing you to bring him to the hospital at closest harbor. You want to be ready for that and feel comfortable about it so you don't panic. You will be using the electronics like everybody else but will only really feel good about your navigation skills if you know you can do it by hand and fully understand the geometry behind navigation, that will take a table to learn on. Make yourself a favor, have somewhere it is comfortable to play with charts the old way.

I personally have never navigated only with paper and compass other then for fun but if need be I know I can.

Cheers
Murielle.

 

Yes, I agree. I am working on a design that will meet all that criteria. With some luck, one day it will be my boat.

Cheers

 

Saloon table for passage planning; 'breakfast bar'/nav station for passage making! sss'easy

 

The point was that you should design around the more reliable system and that if paper charts are the backup then any surface will suffice. So it is the size of the "Nav centre " that is the issue if you wre primarily paper you would want a full size chart table if primarily electronics then any size will do since you can use the saloon table ifyou fall back onto paper nav.

 

Murielle
That’s why in a non metal boat you should keep any essential electronic backup systems in a full metal container (faraday cage), and fit lightening protection. The very intense electric field following lightning strike fries electronic devices wholesale. Small biscuit tins are good for a handheld GPS for example.

This is not required in a metal hull with lightning protection since the hull acts as a very effective faraday cage. Same as in motor vehicle the safest place to be in an electric storm is inside a metal framework/structure.

Cheers
Mike

 

We have a breakfast bar in both our 48 and 36ft motorboats. They're great. We do most of our dining there. In the larger boat, you could use it to put a chart on, but not in the smaller boat as it's too narrow. But why would you bother when the dining table is so close by?
Incidentally, the 36 is the only one with a dedicated chart area - it will take a full size chart on the 'dash' next to the helm. Great during the day. At night, however, we still use the dinette which is aft, separate in the saloon. Once again - night vision....

 

Will

Your way ahead of my idea there, and it seems to work - which is precisely the way I was trying to get people to go (apart from the fact I was stirring it a bit, as if I would stir it? there again in this instance I think the pot needs a little stiring, after all there's a rumour we've moved on since Cap'n Cook first sailed!)

 

Safewalrus and Will, thank you for keeping track of what the question was. And yes safewalrus, I do like your thinking and the idea of spaces close together and the use of perspex.
And based on all this dicussion I would like to go back to what the issue was here.
This is a passage making boat to live on. As a woman I like to look at how I use space. I do that at home and I do that in my office.
For example in my kitchen I am not interfering with structural issues but I have come up with a sink solution that NO dedicated kitchen designer presented to me. And I absolutely love my not common solution, it works a treat and other people give it the thumps up too. It happened because I took the time to look around and question things with no preconceived ideas but the knowledge of someone who uses the sink a lot.
That got me thinking about the boat. What if I think about the interior and see if there are some improvements to be made as well?
So, here we are talking about a passage making live aboard couple and questioning the existence of a chart table. NOT the issue of using charts, but more IF you use them how and where and are you not wasting space.
IF you use charts: before a passage in port you plot the course and for that you could use any large flat surface. As you are in port and not moving, plotting a position could be done on a surface that could be anywhere, right? So dining table, bed, deck etc. At that point a dedicated table is not neccessary, agree? We are just looking and not plotting hard out.
And then we go sailing. The boat moves and lurges and where do we have our meals. Probably not formally sitting at the dining table, so that could be -when sailing- the chart table if you need one, right?
Or you fold the chart, put it in a plastic folder, or coat it with clear paint and have it near the steering position in the cockpit where most of you want to be. I have not seen a chart table in the cockpit and most of you didn't want to go down to a dedicated chart table anyway while sailing. However when you need to plot the course -IF you use a chart- you have to go down below to either a chart table or a dining table. As the dining table is free anyway, why not use that one for example and leave the chart table out.
Now is this logic false?
It is NOT about using charts or not, it still is about finding the best use of surfaces by thinking your movements through thoroughly.
And then the conclusion might be that a dedicated space solely for charts is a waste of space as there are actually lots of other solutions where to put the chart during voyages.
What I notice is that disciplined thinking is actually very difficult. But I love all the different opinions as that really gives me an inside in all the issues and I can really get a sense of where the problems lie and what a safe solution will be.

And safewalrus stir away, again I think that is where the gold lies.

 

Now that's what I like to see - a woman who "uses the sink a lot"....

 

Wilma - stay off the bed! NO GOOD FOR CHARTWORK

 

Will, we can now have a debate about a big sink versus big chart table, if you dare.
Or Will, be flexible, make the bed work if that is what you got.
I rather have my huge double sink configuration -in which I easily can wash my large baking dishes as well as small things- than the chart table.
At least you also have your electronic GPS equipment, I won't have a dishwasher.

 

Ok - you can wash the dishes in a bucket if you have to, but no navigation might mean no boat.....
Now you've gone and brought up one boating life's great conundrums.... why the bloody hell do manufactueres make everything that bit smaller for boats?!?
The dishes are the same size as at home - so why is the sink smaller?
I eat just as much - so why can I only fit a midget pot on it?
My bum's just as big - so why is the loo 1/2 the size?

and so the list goes on. I have a feeling that we will be on the same side on this one Wilma....

But you still gotta forget about the bed for chartwork.....

 

I totally agree about the sink size. This time around I'm getting a real sink. I even eyed those stainless sinks wich extend as the part of counter top on wich the drying rack stands.

Murielle

 

Thank you Murielle, always good to get support for the small but daily life things in life from people ( women) who are actually using it too.
Yes Will, we live on the same side of the world and I agree that we are on the same side about this "small is not sensible" issue.
That is why thinking about space is soooo important and you hit the nail on the head.
I rather have a big dining table/ breakfast bar/island bench that is multi usuable, AND have a full sized galley with normal sized pots, sinks and stoves for us normal sized people, than unneccessary dedicated spaces for occasional use and end up with a miniture lay-out for midgets. That is the whole point that makes live aboard comfortable for women and men.