What design features make life aboard comfortable & practical for females?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Wilma Ham, Aug 20, 2006.

  1. Vega
    Joined: Apr 2005
    Posts: 1,606
    Likes: 26, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 132
    Location: Portugal

    Vega Senior Member

    It looks you have a good (and expensive) taste:p

    Take also a look at the Regina 43 (link on the previous post).

    The Fantasi is a better sailing boat, even if the Regina is not bad.
     
  2. Paddy
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 38
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Dublin, Ireland

    Paddy Junior Member

    "Professional"? "Rubbish"? Manners?

    I make no claim to marine professionalism, I simply put forward my opinions based on my limited experience.

    There is nothing sacred about charts glued together by the coffee or sauce or whatever spilled a few days previously when that inconsiderate wave or wake caught you unawares.

    Fine if you are at your interior steering position, but in the cockpit in gets windy, charts blow away or rip.
    I have a plastic chart cover, to which I can attach a lanyard, but changing the chart underway is simply more hassle than going to the chart table.

    Incidently, I saw an interesting solution to this on a steel boat called Ti Gitu (http://uk.geocities.com/faymarine@btinternet.com/ti.htm). The chart table is enclosed in the dog house before descending the companionway steps.

    Really Walrus! Do I detect a note of cynicism? That would be bad manners. I make a point of checking everything is secure before going to sea, don't you?
     
  3. Vega
    Joined: Apr 2005
    Posts: 1,606
    Likes: 26, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 132
    Location: Portugal

    Vega Senior Member

    Hey Paddy, I don't think Safewalrus had any intention to be rude to you.

    And you are right about personal experience. If you need a chart table, get a boat with a good one.

    I only use paper charts to do the next day planning and as Walrus had said I do that exchanging opinions with the crew (family) on the bigger saloon table. And I don't do that when the table is used for having a meal; even for the planning I use more and more the charts I have in my computer.

    While at sea I use the electronic charts on the plotter (at the outside steering position) and only to have a global view, I have a look at the paper chart. That sometimes don't even happen in a trip, and when it happens, it is a quick look, one or two times a day.

    For that, the chart could be anywhere inside the boat, providing you know where it is and that it is readily accessible.

    Chart tables were absolutely indispensable when you didn’t have GPS, Plotters and electronic charts, but nowadays, I guess that their utility has to do with your personal choices regarding navigation.

    Cheers
     
  4. Paddy
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 38
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Dublin, Ireland

    Paddy Junior Member

    Sure, no arguments about using the (clean) saloon table with the whole crew, getting everyone involved. Aside from the sense & safety of everyone having the same understanding, it's simply good leadership.

    Similarly, I'm all for GPS, plotters, and any other electronic whizz-kiddery, but they don't work when your power fails, or if Uncle Sam decides to garble the satellite data.

    The little pencil mark on the chart is an essential backup in my book, and I do it as a matter of routine, once an hour on short trips and every two hours on long passages.
     
  5. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 4,742
    Likes: 78, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 659
    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Maybe I got it slightly wrong (?) what I meant was 'You don't need an acre of table to spread your chart out at sea - do that in harbour on the saloon table - then (horror of horrors) :eek: you can FOLD :eek: the paper chart to size to fit your piece of area as close to the helm as 'reasonably practicable', and if thats on a shelf inside the companion way for most of the time then so be it!

    As for the time honoured pencil mark, of course you use back up and put one in place every hour or less as required - just remember the degree of accuracy on a small boat that you can get when not using electronic trickery, pretty big huh! :p

    But as Vega so rightly said I shouldn't mention it the purists will go all faint! conversely if it makes one person consider better living conditions it might just be worth it!

    and Paddy where do you get this idea from that I'm in anyway cynical? Sarcastic, yes! But cynical, no, as if! :p
     
  6. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 4,742
    Likes: 78, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 659
    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    And Vega, your right you do need a place to put your plotter, radar, radio and other electronic bits (and yer coffee cup!) but as I've said (tried to explain in my gentle way) you don't normally need acres of table for that - your using the chart not making it! (and yes I did spend a small amount of time helping [in a small way] to make them but that's another story, hardly worth the telling)

    Mike
     
  7. Paddy
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 38
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Dublin, Ireland

    Paddy Junior Member

    1 acre = 43,560 sq ft. Between exageration and sarcasm (correction accepted) it is getting difficult to understand you.
    I don't think insisting on a small dedicated space for navigating purposes free from dinners, coffees, etc. makes one a purist.
     
  8. Ari
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 421
    Likes: 15, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 94
    Location: Port Dickson, Malaysia

    Ari Patience s/o Genius

    'Chart table' looks like one very important item in this discussion. I believe if somebody doing a passage crossing oceans,than that table might be very important, if what as majority of sailors do is sail or powered up for a few days in coastal waters the chart table can't be that important. Maybe the way I had been trained is different from you guys. We are so used to travel without charts (frequently traveled route), compass, echo sounder and GPS will do. Our cargo boat doesn’t even have a dedicated chart table. Any table or bench will do. It is managing the journey that's important.
     
  9. Scott Carter
    Joined: Oct 2006
    Posts: 130
    Likes: 11, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 143
    Location: Annapolis

    Scott Carter Senior Member

    In the same boat

    Wilma - You and I are thinking on the same wave length. I'm about 2 to 3 weeks from HAVING to make some basic decisions on interior accomodations on my schooner. I'm self designing and self building with hired help, so I don't have to pity the builder, he's me!
    My single accomodation decision so far is that I will for sure have an intermediate station between the external, sometimes very wet cockpit and the interior, dry saloon where crew can disrobe from their foul weather/swimming gear. I'll add hanging lockers on either side which will encroach on engine room, but the back panels will be romovable which will acutally provide even greater access to the engine space. This is not a new idea (I don't think) but it's a practical, thought out one for my anticipated cruising lifestyle.
    Don't forget, someone else's opinion is probably based on their needs, and maybe not yours.
    P.S. I like the folding chairs idea.
     
  10. Scott Carter
    Joined: Oct 2006
    Posts: 130
    Likes: 11, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 143
    Location: Annapolis

    Scott Carter Senior Member

    Wilma - You and I are thinking on the same wave length. I'm about 2 to 3 weeks from HAVING to make some basic decisions on interior accomodations on my schooner. I'm self designing and self building with hired help, so I don't have to pity the builder, he's me!
    My single accomodation decision so far is that I will for sure have an intermediate station between the external, sometimes very wet cockpit and the interior, dry saloon where crew can disrobe from their foul weather/swimming gear. I'll add hanging lockers on either side which will encroach on engine room, but the back panels will be romovable which will acutally provide even greater access to the engine space. This is not a new idea (I don't think) but it's a practical, thought out one for my anticipated cruising lifestyle.
    Don't forget, someone else's opinion is probably based on their needs, and maybe not yours.
    P.S. I like the folding chairs idea.
     
  11. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 4,742
    Likes: 78, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 659
    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Ari - spot on mate couldn't have said it better (well OK maybe......)
     
  12. Wilma Ham
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 138
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: New Zealand

    Wilma Ham Senior Member

    Scott, the intermediate station sounds good, you don't want people barging into your living space with dirty, salty and wet clothes if you can help it.
    Having your opinion based on your needs is so true, but most of the time we don't question our needs and then we end up with an opinion that might be ill founded. That is why I enjoy the debate about dedicated chart tables because again it helps me to look if we really need one. These days having a surface for the computer/laptops with good seating might be more important now we seem to spend so much time behind those.
    It might be even in the format of the type of breakfast bar, or an island bench and those will also keep me safe from falling over when working in the galley at sea. With a laptop we are already getting used to flexible workstations, I am sitting with that thing all over the place and thus sharing a space adjoining the galley is no longer an issue.
    Our current way of living is changing and maybe that could flow over to certain areas on the boat.
    Charts are big things and I so appreciate Mike's comments, spread the charts out on the dining table or even the island bed (another reason why such a bed is handy) and don't be so precious about where you look at them in full size. Pat's solution to have a dedicated plastic cover is great, so you can take them outside where you want to look at them.
    It is common sense to fold them, I cannot spread the full size map out when I am in the car either. What I do notice is that getting used to new technology might play a role here. Changing from charts to GPS and computer based technology takes time and in the meantime do you provide for both the old and new method?
    However being flexible, without compormising safety or userfriendliness is what I am looking for. Being unneccesarily sacred about things is what I am trying to eliminate here, also I am looking to unearth my own sacred cows, which are ususally invisible to us but keep us from seeing alternatives. If we give those up we might be surprised by what is possible.
    Paulo, I have enjoyed your links, your contributions and your expertise, they have given me food for thought and that is what I am asking for at this moment in time.
    An interesting concept is the volvo "your concept car" which is totally designed by women and have some different features. The link is
    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/volvo-concept.htm and fun to look at.
     
  13. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 4,742
    Likes: 78, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 659
    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Wilma

    Your 'breakfast bar' is definately 'food for thought' if you'll excuse the pun! I can see uses for this straight away, might need some radical rethinking in some quarters but, yes, it's got merit!

    Now this car beasty - as a non driver (of cars) they don't interest me all that much, but I do like some of the ideas in this one! Now if you can just invent a washing machine that we mere men can operate we can stay home all day and let the women go out to work (AFTER the kids have gone to school - i draw the line at looking after those creatures, after all as a proffesional 'kid' I know how nasty we can be :p :p :D :D
     
  14. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,192
    Likes: 208, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2054
    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    We never use the chart table for charts I always used the saloon table since it accommodates an unfolded chart, these days though the paper chart has been replaced by the laptop computer. Once you use one of those as a chartplotter with CMAP your paper charts are gone except the larger scale backups.

    Consider the sextant GPS debate a few years back. The purists soon learnt that electronic navigation was far safer, the electronic charts are fully SOLAS compliant and make for very safe reliable positioning and navigation.

    So ultimately the galley table can be used for the times you want a paper chart but I would design the nav station around a notebook computer not around a paper chart, this means a much smaller desk will do.
     

  15. Finlander
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 80
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: Europe

    Finlander Junior Member

    rest/navigation station

    Ok, looks like we're still hanging-out here in this thread :) You guys with all your laptop computers and GPS... Better hope it never fails. Or at least remember how to do it the old way :!:


    How about this setup:

    +++Down the companionway steps into a raised cabin area---raised enough so that you can see forward when standing-up.

    +++Big U-galley on one side.

    +++Small booth with opposing benches and table on the other. Electronics mounted on the side. Possibly built-in food storage/ cooler under the table top.

    +++A full saloon with big table is forward, two-steps down.

    The advantage is that you've got a two-person chart table that also serves as a rest area for crew when underway. Naturally it would be possible to sit and drink coffee, eat soup, etc.---if things don't get too messy.

    I saw this a short time ago. Leaned-over and peered-into the window :p
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.