What design features make life aboard comfortable & practical for females?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Wilma Ham, Aug 20, 2006.

  1. Wilma Ham
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    Wilma Ham Senior Member

    Vega, thanks for your answers on page 17. I am really trying hard to keep up with all the info. I liked on that post the lay out of the galley where the chart table was very close to the galley and could be used as overflow and extra bench space. That whole galley looks very workeable to me with bench space at both sides and neatly closed in with enough space for people to work side by side and move in and out. An u shaped one is less equiped for more than one person.
    About your comment that semi custom build boats all have certain special features, I wonder why you still have to look for specific one off examples, I have not seen one boat that has been smart enough to incorporate all the seperate and individual smart solutions even from the camping world.
    I know that would be a big ask, but I am looking at only one type of boat and that is a live aboard boat for a couple that can be sailed by the couple and even single handedly when needed. And I don't want to sit outside in bad weather. My wish is to do away with the cockpit alltogether.
    I love your idea of using a cabin not as a cabin but as storage space under a deck area or raised saloon and make the other spaces larger as for example the galley where more space is imprtant.
    About the hammocks, if you look at baby shops, they have a kind of hammock that fits in the larger cot for when the baby is still very little. This does away with having an extra bassinet for the very small baby. I found that a very clever solution because that could make the large bed useable when at sea and it looked very comfortable.
    Also the saloon on the picture next to that good galley looked very spacious with in my opinion large windows. Would that be a raised saloon and could that be even a little bit higher with an inside steering and sail handling station, so it would become a type of pilot house cum saloon? If that had a large opening hatch over the forward steering position, so you could be outside in fine weather that would be great.
    However would the boom be then in the way, would that configuration be possible?
     
  2. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    Hello Wilma,

    That’s because it can not be done. Small boats have always a lot of compromises. If you use that little bit of extra space this way, you can not use it another way. Different architects can do different things with a small space, but they can not do all the things at the same time.

    Yes, I am looking for the same thing…except that part of “to do away with the cockpit altogether”. What about those wonderful sunny days? There’s nothing like staying outside, protected from the sun by a shade, enjoying the weather and the scenery.

    Well, I guess everything is possible. I have read once in a French magazine about a relatively small boat completely controlled by computer….but I don’t think it will be a good idea. If you have a furling boom from the last generation with an electric winch and a self tacking jib, you have to do very little, and you can do almost everything from inside the boat, even if it is a good idea to go outside when furling the main, just to look well at the boom and the sail and see if everything goes smoothly.

    But you remain evasive about an important thing….money. Money will tell what kind of compromises you have to live with, regarding a boat.

    Let´s assume that money it is not a problem. If that is the case I would tell you to have a look at this boat:

    http://www.fantasi-yachts.se/boats/index.php?page=2_1

    I will post several links of high quality semi-custom Deck saloons. That way you can look at many options, and see a lot of good ideas:

    http://www.tartanyachts.com/model/m...589&MUID=ed676579-481c-45b0-b6d2-279534f46e90

    http://www.caborico.com/news/index.html

    http://www.c-yacht.com/page/page/pa...430/General information C-Yacht 11.30 DS.html

    http://www.cryachts.se/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=26

    http://www.degeroyachts.fi/d38ds.htm

    http://www.dehler.com/dehler41ds/41dsboatoverview.cfm

    http://www.nauticat.com/

    http://www.nordship.dk/index.php?id=353&main=Forside&sub=353&language=2

    http://www.northshore.co.uk/#

    http://www.schoechl.com/en/frame.htm

    http://www.wauquiez.com/ps41_uk.php

    http://www.wauquiez.com/ps47_uk.php

    http://www.arconayachts.co.uk/

    http://www.etapyachting.com/index.cfm?Part=Yachts&Page=New&YachtType=46DS&Detail=General&Pos=6

    http://www.sirius-werft.de/


    I guess that if you take a look at these sites, you will have a lot of information.


    You can also look at my gallery here and see a boat that I have redesigned to suit my “needs” and tastes:

    http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/8782



    Finally, take a look at this boat (assuming that you want to have a custom boat):

    http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/Globetrotter45.htm

    This one is a design from Eric Sponberg, a naval architect and a contributor of this forum. I am quite sure that Eric can help you modify this boat to include all your ideas. It is a very seaworthy boat and very easy to be handled by a single person and can be piloted from the interior.

    Best regards

    Paulo
     
  3. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Like the Fantasi-Yachts
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Wilma Ham
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    Wilma Ham Senior Member

    Thank you, Paulo, I will have a more thorough look at the sites you provided.
    I am open about the price as I don't want a restriction on ideas to start of with, I have noticed that money perse, either the perceived lack or the abundance of money is not always the best guideline to go by.
    I still think the gold lies in becoming clear about what you want and love to do when living on a boat as that will support the decisions you will make and where you want to spend the money and how much money. If it will cost more than a million and if that is what I want I will either find the money or tone down my wish list with a clear mind of what I am sacrificing and be happy with it.
    My partner John has once been a commercial ferry skipper and has worked on a fishing boat during his travels and those skippers are all driving boats -from inside- very skillfully at sea and in busy ports. He did say you had to get used to the idea of doing eveything from inside, but it worked well. Of course there are -on a sailing boat- times to go outside, but do you have to dedicate an outside area like a cockpit for those occasions when you have to do things on deck.
    I am still looking for an option of sailing outside in lovely weather in a more comfortable configuration on deck. During bad weather -as a woman- I don't want to go near the outside and neither do I want John to sit outside if we can avoid it. That would greatly add to my comfort of living aboard and passage making, when I know I don't have to be outside and that I have a large 'good - weather' deck area that is fitted out nicely and doesn't require a hole that eats into my space below.
    I am still enquiring and asking questions and getting to grips with what is possible on boats. One example is the v-berth, most older boats have them but by asking I found out nobody likes them very much and so v-berths are now definitely out on my boat and I got a lot of info about beds, hangmats and quarter berths on boats.
    I had just a quick look at your links and I directly noticed the bed (on fantasi, I think) with the drawers underneath, wonderful. Swim steps at the back are great too. The kitchens are still very conventional, and won't allow more than one person in the u shape.
    I still like the long bench galley type kitchens with extra table space from chart and/or dinner table.
    Thanks again for all the links and your answer.
     
  5. Paddy
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    Paddy Junior Member

    Hands off the chart table !!!!
    Use the dinner table to your hearts content; Make the boat bigger; Have an extended work space; Have as many headses, pipe berths, hammocks, etc., etc. as you want; Have drawers if you must; But the chart table is for charts & navigation, not cooking, don't go there Wilma, or you might not get there!!!
     
  6. Wilma Ham
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    Wilma Ham Senior Member

    I will not use the chart table if you men clean the kitchen bench after use and indeed give me enough space in the galley in whatever way you designers see fit, wiht windows to look out of!
     
  7. Wilma Ham
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    Wilma Ham Senior Member

    Oh no, I think I gave in too quickly, picture this, no big meals during passage when you need the charts. However when in port, Paddy you can sit with the blokes on the flush deck pouring over the charts and figure out where we will go next and I cook up a storm in the kitchen for you guys to eat and then I will need lots of room AND the chart table.
    Vega on page 17 included a picture of a galley lay-out with a chart table close by that looks VERY workeable to me.
     
  8. Wilma Ham
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    Wilma Ham Senior Member

    PS while you guys are on deck, us girls are in the comfortable saloon with the great galley looking at the GPS charts and using the chart table for comfortable cooking and drinking unrestricted while you guys have to keep your beerbottles full and on the chart to keep it from blowing away.
    Who is looking for a comfortable life here?
     
  9. Richard Hillsid
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Richard Hillsid Senior Member

    What design features make life aboard comfortable & practical for females?
    :idea:
    A Perforated Stainless Steel Strip Pole is always handy; it must not be too big as it can be used as a hand hold in rough weather.
     
  10. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    Wilma,

    I did not understand what boat you were talking about, when referring to that chart table near the galley. But I do now.

    That's from a Farr 542, a 86ft boat; (I will post an image of the boat) a multi-million dollar boat (only a boat of that size can have a galley like that).

    See what I mean about the money? If you are looking for a multi-million boat, all those links that I have posted are useless. Those boats cost between a quarter of a million and a million dollars.

    Besides, I think that in a boat of the Farr size, you need a small crew, to handle the boat comfortably.

    In smaller boats there is a good reason for the galley to be narrow. While at sea, to work there you need to support your body against something to have both hands free. In a boat with a large galley, you will always need a hand to hold yourself. I am not a great cook, but I can assure you that cooking with only one hand is not easy.
     

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  11. Wilma Ham
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    Wilma Ham Senior Member

    Wow, that boat is beautiful but indeed too big. However some of the things on big boats might be able to be translated to smaller boats on a smaller scale. Why I do like to look at some of those huge boats is that the design didn't start from a lack of space but from what is possible and you might see things you never thought possible if you start thinking from a small boat's perspective. If you sacrifice a cabin and an ensuite than a bigger galley could be possible and then I have an idea of what I like, although I am not suggesting I want the exact galley. The galley from Jack Frost on page 11 is also a lay out I like because of the long bench spaces on either side and the narrowness that will keep me steady. 2 people can work side by side. I have seen a center board being the inside wall, with a cabin on the other side, also a very comfortable lay-out.
    What I wonder though is how people on such a large boat in such a large kitchen hold on to things while cooking?
     
  12. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "What I wonder though is how people on such a large boat in such a large kitchen hold on to things while cooking?"

    An item we have built into a few offshore boats is a butt spot.

    A few sunken fittings are bolted into the cabin sole and a slightly curved post with a padded end is slipprd in .
    There are knotches so it can
    t rotate.

    The cookie simply places his/her butt against the padding and with 2 legs bracing is 3 legged stable. Hands free in anything but negative G'ss.

    Remove & store in port. Doesn't restrict dodging as a belt would when the pressure cooker or spagetty pot becomes airborne.

    The traditional "Teak & Holly " cabin sole is today done for looks and not as it was origonally, for no skid purposes.

    In days of old the Holly stood proud 1/8 of an inch and was the source of traction. Hard to clean , and the holly wore at spots , but very functional.

    Today we install 1/4 strips of teak that stands proud , that is a force fit and can be replaced as needed.

    FAST FRED
     
  13. Paddy
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    Paddy Junior Member

    Now here's a boat I can afford!
    35 feet, GRP, Island bed, Fin keel or Bilge keel option. From the look of it it should be reasonably easy to rig leeboards in the aft cabin for passagemaking. Last ones were made about 2000. I am not sure if there's sufficient room for a hard dodger, I'm expecting to see one in a week or so. Ok, there's no workshop, and a dozen other compromises for this size of boat, but, well just look at it. And yes, if I was caught out in a hurricane I'd have confidence in this boat.
    http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/westerly-oceanquest/westerly-oceanquest.htm
     
  14. safewalrus
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    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Wow Paddy stuff could really fly around that saloon in a seaway!! You'd spend your life ducking and weaving and catching things! could really be fun!:p

    And Willma, from a professional, forget that rubbish about the 'sacred chart table'! :eek: On a small boat you sort out your 'passage', in harbour, on the saloon table with everybody else around to discuss and help! :cool: At sea you keep your chart (in use) as close to the 'helm' as possible, the rest either on the spare bunk (in order of use) or a drawer underneath where they can't jump about - 'cos if they can they will! ;) Either use part of the chart table space to extend the galley, :idea: or construct a big food/clothes storage - makes more sense (gets the purists all fired up to which is fun)! :D Oh yes and sling a hammock in the passageway over the saloon table for yourself (the you've got the best of all worlds). Actually on a long passage with two onboard you hotbunk into the hammock for the off watch, watchkeeper to get a decent sleep :idea: (there's nothing worse than both of you being absolutely knackered because of loss of sleep, get one of you well rested as much as possible - you then have somebody fresh to take over should you need it! Use the bunks to store provisions - by the time you get to port you've eaten all the food and have your harbour berths back in use - easy??:D :D
     

  15. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    Jesus, Safewalrus ...you should not say that:eek: ...even if I agree with you:p

    In a deck-saloon it makes even less sense...but you have to have space for the plotter, radio and radar, but if well thought out you can have a sort of multi-function space.

    Wilma, about that idea of scaling down, I am afraid it is a bad idea, things don’t work that way. On Jack’s boat, I agree with you. There are lots of boats with that lay-out, because it is a good one.

    About the need to hold on ,while cooking, in a large boat….because it is a large boat there is not so much need to hold, because the boat has a much more steadier movement. That boat is about 2 times bigger in length, comparing with the boats we are talking about, but it is also 10 times heavier, and that is what counts more in what regards boat’s movement.

    I guess that I can not help you more. Now you should really have a look at a lot of boats (I mean real size boats, not photos) and with what you know, I am sure you can add a lot of good suggestions to adapt a boat to your needs.

    Perhaps only suggest that you have a look at these two Galleys, the one of a Regina 43 and the one I think that goes more with your tastes, the one of a Puffin 42. That one has a table behind the place where you are supposed to stand while cooking and that permits you to have a support to your back; when in port, you can have lots of space to prepare a good meal (I bet you are a good cook;) ).

    http://www2.yachtworld.com/discovery/discovery_15.html

    http://www.puffinusa.com/42.html
     
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