What design features make life aboard comfortable & practical for females?

Some folks carry a home style air matress to use over the relativly solid sitting foam. Takes up little room if vacumed down after use.

Of course a harder bunk may equal shorter visits , a Plus?

FAST FRED

 

That's if you want a soft bed. A soft chair is nice now and again, but whether a bed or seat, I'll have it firm thanks.

However, a foam mattress is ok for a few weeks, but I really don't fancy it for a liveaboard. Anyone got any ideas as to whether there are problems with a properly sprung mattress?

 

I can't say I've ever heard complaints about proper sprung mattresses in boats, provided they don't share quarters with the wet locker. Keep 'em dry (well, any bed sucks when wet) and I don't see a problem.
As for foam, I'm in favour of dense and very thick. A 3" pad may sound like a lot, but if it's not dense enough, it'll just squish and you're feeling the plywood underneath. It's all about quality.
My next boat's still a good decade off, at least, but for sure it will have proper, comfortable sleeping quarters. I've done enough sleeping on foam camping mats, time to upgrade!

 

So lots of heads and beds is the thing eh? Lets go back to the old sailing Navy - don't matter which one they where all much the same for accommodation! Too many people for the space provided! Really the only time you need lots of peole is on a long passage as watchkeepers - so "hot bunk" em (after all theres always a spare bunk or two as somebody is on watch) or stick 'em in Hammocks OK so you need about ten feet by two feet for each person but think of all that room during the day when the hammocks are struck! And there's nothing better in a seaway - your well and truly 'gimbaled', only two points of contact with the vessel. You just got to get used to slinging them properly is all!

As to heads, go onboard the old sailing ship and stroll for'ard see those two holes (about bum size) either side of the bowsprit, yes you found 'em The HMS Victory had four such for all the junior ratings and two in turrets for the Petty Officers, with a couple more aft for the officers - not a lot! and completly hygenic, the odd wave over your head washed a fair bit away and speeded up the use of the damn things to ('cause all the men in the crew peed out of the gun ports (not to windward - brings a whole new meaning to 'getting your own back'). Always send a 'powder monkey' overboard just before you went into port to scrub off the poo unlike modern Health and Safety laws boys were expendable then (so was most of the rest of the crew, one of the reasons they were so big!)

 

well I have been cruising for 45 days or so and look what I have been missing
Hello Wilma and Murielle, it is good to have some women thoughts on this forum. Perhaps I can convince my wife in joining the debate .

It took me a while to read all this thread…and what can I add?

Well, it seems that lots of things are contradictory…One big head or two smaller ones, Decksaloon or not, size of the cockpit…It looks that the ideal boat changes accordingly to personal tastes…and that is to be expected.

What has not been said? Perhaps that you should take in consideration that a cabin that is continuous to the engine compartment will many times be hot and noisy (cruisers motor or motorsail a lot more than what is expected).That a head that is continuous to a cabin will always give some smell to that cabin.

But mainly, as Jack has pointed out, almost everything has been tried as the interior of a boat. Some companies, especially those that are specialized in semi-custom decksaloons/pilot houses have been perfecting their models for many years, joining every good idea that is suggested by new owners and they have an huge amount of expertise, creativity and savoir faire. It would be really a waste to throw all that information away. Multiply that wealth of bright solutions for several boat manufacturers and you will have a treasure in information and good ideas.

I am not talking necessarily in buying their boats, but in seeing them and explore their interior in the boatshows. And it can not be done in any boatshow, because these are not mass production boats and you have to ask them in what shows they are going to show their boats. It is one of the things I have been doing for some years…and of course, you can join the pleasure of learning and seeing nice boats with the pleasure of traveling to nice cities and have some nice little holidays. My wife is always asking me when we go again to another boatshow.

To illustrate what I am saying I will post some photos

 

hmm..i guess slightly advanced hammocks (with belts on)would be good if doing a long sea passage,and especcially for going offshore.

 

Whyfore you need belts in a hammock, obviously never used one for it's original purpose, which ain't for swinging around the garden in! rig it properly and you'll have difficulty getting out normally never mind with a belt on the damn thing - and you'll get the best night's sleep you've ever had at sea! as long as you have the right conditions to rig it properly. What your thinking of is 'cots' like hammocks but slung differently (bit like a box with the lines straight up to the deckhead - works but not as well, plus it normally needs a couple of you to rig and most of the time stays up i.e. for officers only

 

I have not been cruising unfortunately, but the last few days I have been thinking and reading through most of the posts. I really appreciate this opportunity to access this wealth of information and I want to make sure that I make the most of it.
First Vega, please let your wife join the debate.
What came up for me after reading through it all, is that the most important thing that will make life aboard a pleasure for me is dedicated and easy accessible storage and that is what I would appreciate most from a designer. Why? I will be the one who is the captain over the interior, the food and the clothes and bedclothes. What would really get to me (and that became clear after reading all the issues that we have discussed in this thread) is to remove things to get to things. It is like Peter robbing Paul or something along those lines. When I hear that bunks are great to have to store things up and under I do some thinking. First I think, okay that makes sense and then I visualise how it will be. So I have a cabin for the occasional visitor and then I visualise the bunk full of stuff. Then I think, why is that stuff there, why are those items not in a dedicated place and what do I do with them when in port and the bunk is needed for visitors. That is where I start to feel, Oh no what a hassle and live aboard becomes less attractive. Shuffling stuff around becomes my job as the housekeeper and it would irritate me no end.
So my first and main question and challange to designers is, please give me dedicated spaces that fit the big things (chilly bins from day visitors, boxes of drinks that people might bring, big containers for my rice, potatoes, cabages, sheets, etc) without lifting up bed mattrasses or seats in the saloon. If you can find a solution for that, boy will I love you.
Someone made a really good remark that for example the pointy front of the boat could be partitioned off for storage space and don't use it for a v-berth. I think why not put the island bed in the middle of the cabin space and have a false wall behind the bed with enough space to have a wall with drawers and leave the shape of the hull how it is. Why does the hull sides have to be made square like a wall in a house if that gives complications for the fitting of furniture around that funny shape. Shelves along the hull could be great as storage for underwear, linnens, clothes etc. if tilted so stuff won't fall out. Now don;t come back and say what if you fall against the hull, furniture is to support you when in motion. Just think of storage and find solutions for steadying yourself afterwards. Rails are great and don't take up much room.
I only need two cabins, 2 island beds, no cabin with an ensuite and I hope that will leave enough space for dedicated storage solutions would it not?
Clever remark was that a pilot house doesn;t leave much room for storage, so maybe a raised saloon with biggerish windows is the solution as a kind of open plan living and with the ability to enjoy the view.
If I look at the photoos from Vega there are only a few I think show a good use of space, but again all the big dining tables taking up space are not designed to serve as a workdesk when sitting on those seats. For that the table is too far away from the seats and you cannot easily access them from the galley as extra bench space. Disappointing use of all that flat service.
None of the seats have drawers under them, behind the table I have to lift up thoses squabs to get to my whatever. If you can find a diffrent solutions for that storage problem, I would be so impressd and happy.
For me the 2 comfortable chairs and a table on the side would do it and not having the table would that save enough space to have a dedicated storage space for a fold up table when in port for example?
And in the mean time I have gained a settee that is easy accessible with easy accessible drawers underneath. That is what I would like a designer to come up with.
Now that I only want two cabins, could that mean I have more space in the galley for food and pot storage drawers?
So that is what is first and foremost on my mind, dedicated storage space and for example leave bunks for sleeping on, and settees for sitting on.
Another dedicated storage space that is gone on most modern boats even if they don't have an enclosed pilot house, the wet weather gear locker, where do I put my wet stuff if I happen to have to wear it without as what Murielle said trapsing with it through the whole interior of the boat? How do I get it off and then get into the boat without getting soaked again?
I would love an innerspring mattress, how do you get a big solid mattress through the tiny openings?
If you can come up with doing away with tiny nonsense spaces and great dedicated storage spaces I will be in haven on a boat and no Will, I don't want a launch and no people I don't want a catamarin at this stage. I first want to dedicate my thinking to better solutions on a sailing boat!
So, have I been successful in sharing what my wishes are and what I don't like about the current inside configuration and that according to my view the focus of customes is on the wrong thing at the moment?

 

PS, I love the thought behind the hammocks and this is a great example of looking how to save space. You think about the item, what do you use it for, how often and what to do with it when not in use. Then how to make them comfortable and easy to get in and out of and I think there you might have a great solution for at sea and for the occasional short term visitors if they don't want to sleep together.

 

I would take some experience of the hammock before making any serious decisions. They may look very comfotable when looking at some one else in them but they are extrememly difficult to get into, need to be close to the ground so as to get into it, and you can hurt youreslf if you fall out of it. They squeeze your arms into you body and all in all not a postion I would stay in for long. When your exhausted and thats usually the case at sea you will sleep any where and if a hammock is all you have then you will get used to it and eventually like it . Its not a sleeping position I would choose.

 

Wilma…This is too much too ask .

About my wife, she is a compulsive reader and says she has already too much work correcting my spelling.

I selected some of your questions and I will try to give you my opinion (one more to your collection), but I guess that we should start by the beginning. I don’t know how much you want to spend on a boat and how much money you will have for living aboard (prices of marinas, maintenance of the boat and so on). If money or size is not a problem all your dreams can come true in a 70ft for about $2,000,000 US Dollars.

If you belong to the majority that can not afford and maintain a big boat…then you’ll have to compromise.

About the boats that I have posted, they are small boats; I mean a 35ft, a 38ft, and three 40 ft boat. The price of those 40ft (new) should be around USD $500,000 . Deck saloons are expensive to build and even a 10 year old one will cost a lot.

About decksaloons let me say that they are not a bad option regarding space. Two of the 40ft have a third cabin partially under the upper deck (the other 40ft have a bigger galley with separate settee). You can eliminate that cabin and transform the space in the central storage space of the boat.

About space, in a boat everything interacts with everything and, as you certainly have read, some people use some cabins to store sails. I have friends that have sails, cables and a lot of stuff inside the boat (those are the ones that don’t sail with their wives). Older boats don’t have space to keep these things out of the boat. If instead of furling sails you have several sails to do the same job, and small and narrow cockpits (typical of narrow boats) have very little storage in the exterior.


So, in my ideal boat all the sails will be outside, as well as all cables, anchors, warps and so on. For this I need a cutter rig with a geenaker in a bowsprit, everything mounted in furlers and permanently installed. All that load up will influence negatively the Stability of the boat, with more relevance at the RM at 90º. I mean in case the boat suffers a 90º knockdown I have to be sure that it will be capable of rising up with a good safety margin. This means that the boat will have to have a very good safety stability.

I will also need to have enough storage space in the cockpit for all the fenders, all the cables, warps, anchors, gasoline for the dinghy, neoprene suits and diving equipment and so on. I will also want a suitable space for an ocean life raft (on the back of the boat), under the cockpit in a position that permits an easy deployment.
I don’t want these lockers to have communication to the interior of the boat neither I want them to be very deep (there are ones that you have to go inside to reach the bottom) because I don’t want them full of water if things go really wrong.


Now that we have put outside everything that is necessary for the boat (and that is not easy) let’s talk about the interior.

First, let’s find a space for the more important, the safety “things”. I store in the outside lockers the flares, but the harnesser, life jackets and security lines are all in the interior ( if you want to save space you will have inflatable life jackets and these don’t like humidity).
You have to choose a very accessible place and a way of having them stored in port, and easy to grab when the boat is at sea. I have them in one of those big suitcases that open with a zip and have the suitcase screwed to the boat. When at port the suitcase is closed, at sea it is open and all the materials are easily accessible over the bed of the cabin that in my boat does the function of storage room ( I have a three cabin boat ).

You talk about dedicated spaces and not have to move things and I think that is impossible in a relatively small boat equipped to make a passage.

I guess that if you transform (in one those 40ft I have posted) the central cabin in your central storage space, and have a large number of small lockers (45cm to 35cm) all around the boat you won’t have to move things a lot.

In the small lockers you will have some fixed things, like glasses, dishes, but most of them, with provisions, clothes, personal equipment and so on. The ones with food will be replenished, in a week or so, with goods taken from a less accessible reserve, like the space under the saloon settees (if you can, don’t have the batteries or the tanks there, it is the best medium time storage space of the boat) or from the central storage space of the boat.

This space is also the space were you will have the generator (if you need one) unless you opt for a Diesel-electric, and then you can save a lot of space and have a lot more flexibility in the management as well as a smaller consumption.

Mike has made some good suggestions about the way these small lockers should open and he has also said (and explained) that big drawers in a boat are a bad idea. It is that the reason why you don’t see them in the boats I have posted (under the settees). Opening the space vertically is a far better solution and gives a better storage, and you can have access the space while at sea. With the drawers it will be complicated.

You can have the two Cabin empty and under the space of them, if not occupied with tanks, you can have some things that you don’t change so often: sheets, blankets, towels, summer clothing or winter clothing, depending on the time of the year and so on.

Those mattresses of yours are a bad idea (with them it would be a nightmare to have access the space under the bed.) There are people specialized in high quality mattresses for boats, I will post a link.

About the table, Malo yachts have the best solution I know. I will post pictures.

About the wet clothes, you won’t want to take them off outside, believe me, and if you really need to be out there in bad weather, when your turn is over you will be so relieved that you are not going to care much about spilling a little bit of water around .

The best solution is having a head near the entrance and a locker in the shower compartment; another good solution that I have seen in some other boat is an open locker on one side of the stairs of the boat. Of course all these lockers have to have some sort of water drain.

I hope this could b useful to you

http://www.yachtiflex.de/

 

Hammock

Aggree with you Jack.Spend a few years during my younger days in hammock..not in the sea though.At times when there is no other better choices, hammock is the best but when given the opportunity to choose hammock is out. Maybe there is a better material & design now a days that I'm not aware of.

 

"Another dedicated storage space that is gone on most modern boats even if they don't have an enclosed pilot house, the wet weather gear locker, where do I put my wet stuff if I happen to have to wear it without as what Murielle said trapsing with it through the whole interior of the boat? How do I get it off and then get into the boat without getting soaked again?
I would love an innerspring mattress, how do you get a big solid mattress through the tiny openings? "

The simple way to have a wet weather locker is to have it in the head,
Some boats will give up space for a seperate free standing shower, and fitted with a bar its a great drying space.
Should be accesable directly from the dog house (makes it far easier on the night watch,and safer too.) .

Real matresses from marine suppliers will fould to fit down the companionway. Superb , but pricy.

FAST FRED

 

Yes--- tailor made mattresses are expensive. I got around this by buying a normal foam mattress with the hardness that was suitable to me and cut it to size. This meant just opening the cover and with the biggest knife I could get I cut 6 inches off the width. It was a simple matter to sew up the cover after.

 

Vega, thanks for your extensive reply and the pictures. Thanks also for the mattress contributors. I get to see that if I was not aware of a boat's complexity, I sure would be aware of it by now.
I am still digesting the thread and really appreciating all the contributions.
I do like the practical solutions as the last one of Jack, cutting a normal foam mattress to size, why not.
I do get a sense of drawers being unpopular for ordinary daily frequently used items, because of the problems with opening them while at sea. However having pullies and tackles to lift up the mattress to get underneath it, is not my favourite solution for less frequently used items.
Good comments about hammocks, I have to look if there are more modern comfortable solutions, it will steer us back to the pipe berths probably, the special marine solution.
Talking about drying places on a boat for wet weather gear.
How is the washing ususally done. These days you have those new light fibres that warm and easy to wash. However you still have to hang them up to dry.
What I don't understand, you hear a lot of talking about washing machines but drying the clothes would look more like a problem to me. If you are not in the tropics, where do you hang it so the wahing doesn't get all that salty spray on them. I would think a dryer would be more appreciated to get rid of all those clothes hanging around in the small spaces or an inside space so a salty wind doesn't make them stiff like a plank.
So would a dryer or dedicated drying space be more convenient than a washing machine to get rid of those damp clothes quickly?