Whale of an idea for marine applications?

[tom28571]

like most of you, I am very skeptical of such claims for "new" discoveries. All the same, is there something that we have missed while dissing this idea.

For one thing, how do whales actually use the flippers? Not for forward propulsion or gliding through the water it seems. When I have seen them in the wild and in many movies, the flippers appear to be used to cause the whale to roll or make small maneuvers, not for swimming ahead. The flippers also seem to be at high angles of attack, if not stalled, while they are being "flipped" about. We know stall fences work to retard stalls at high angles of attack, so might these tubercles be for this purpose.

Most, but not all, things in nature have a useful purpose. Some do not, as their usefulness has been eliminated by some other mutation that takes over the role. The mere existence of some natural feature does not automatically mean that it serves a useful purpose. Facial hair fits this category except that it made Mr Gillette rich.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by tom28571

like most of you, I am very skeptical of such claims for "new" discoveries. All the same, is there something that we have missed while dissing this idea.

For one thing, how do whales actually use the flippers? Not for forward propulsion or gliding through the water it seems. When I have seen them in the wild and in many movies, the flippers appear to be used to cause the whale to roll or make small maneuvers, not for swimming ahead. The flippers also seem to be at high angles of attack, if not stalled, while they are being "flipped" about. We know stall fences work to retard stalls at high angles of attack, so might these tubercles be for this purpose.

Most, but not all, things in nature have a useful purpose. Some do not, as their usefulness has been eliminated by some other mutation that takes over the role. The mere existence of some natural feature does not automatically mean that it serves a useful purpose. Facial hair fits this category except that it made Mr Gillette rich.

LOL ... good point on facial hair.

How much of an aerodynamic revolution do you think this will be?

Could big wads of foam on the mast hoops act like tubercles and make gaff rigs competitive again?

[Frosty]

Facaial hair was normal at one time . It is the beauty thing being eveluted out. A hairy faced woman would have trouble breeding would'nt she?

The body on Maralyn Monroe was considered perfect 40 years ago. Skiny birds are now in so they get the boyfreinds and babies. Fat chicks are out , no babies.

[the1much]

o.k. stupid question,,,,ummm,,,,isnt a baracuda more streamlined, faster,, more efficient , and less bumpy then a whale,,,,how bout squid,,,or a shrimp ( they can swim backwards) or maybe a shark,,,,what ta hell does a whale have to offer?,,a slow ride,,,,man,,,all this crap bout a whale,,,,,how bout bird fins? if a birds wing is so efficient in the air,,,shouldnt it be in water?,,,,and what about whale farts? did anyone think thats where the bubbles come from,,,that way they dont need to use their air? and what about sea urchins,,,they got bumps,,,hmmmm,,,wait a min. i need to call the patent office hehe

[the1much]

nother thought,,,isnt the bumps on the whale fin for drag? resistance and drag make using ya fin (for steering) better?,,could you imagine that big ass whale with those LITTLE flippers if them LITTLE flippers didnt have resistance or drag,,,it would take the whale a mile to turn . Its funny how people think just cause a fish is in the water its totally efficient.,, ya know if we were chasing plankton around i bet the bumps are a good thing,,,but for efficiency EVERYTHING has proved smooth. i cant believe someone is naive enough to think HE was the first to think about it,,hehe,,,do you not think nascar would of figured out aerodynamics by now?,,,,and since NO scientist can say with ANY certainty why ANYTHING on a whale is there,,,,and for a simpleton to think he's come up with something he cant even show REAL results of,,,is idioticy. and then to say < "I'm honestly scared of making claims at this point. The results are so good that we know everybody who knows anything about aerodynamics will think we're salting the goldmine."> is like a theif saying,,,,i know your gonna think im a thief but....let me hold ya purse....
i come from maine where they have "the collage of the atlantic",,,,and them the dudes to ask,,,,,oww,,,i did,,,and the professor said "hahahahhahaha"
and to tell ya the truth prof. dwayne has NEVER laughed at my questions,,,wonder why he picked this 1. hehe

[Bijit Sarkar]

Part of inefficiency for a propeller happens from what is called the tip vortex loss. The computer cooling fan has that fin to effectively prevent that. In tugs and trawlers, where propellers have to be designed for two very diverse working conditions, one free running and the other under load at slow speed, use of a duct is prevalent which , by preventing the tip loss, increases the efficiency.
It looks to me that the serated leading edge serves more or less the same purpose , by forcing the fluid to flow along the camber in a stratified manner and stopping/reducing the flow along the blade.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Bijit Sarkar

Part of inefficiency for a propeller happens from what is called the tip vortex loss. The computer cooling fan has that fin to effectively prevent that. In tugs and trawlers, where propellers have to be designed for two very diverse working conditions, one free running and the other under load at slow speed, use of a duct is prevalent which , by preventing the tip loss, increases the efficiency.
It looks to me that the serated leading edge serves more or less the same purpose , by forcing the fluid to flow along the camber in a stratified manner and stopping/reducing the flow along the blade.

Tip loss is nothing new. There are all sorts of ways to control it.

The duct idea also translates into putting a ring around the turbine blades.

Increasing span as they do on gliders and wind turbine blades works because tip losses effect less of the total span ... winglets on airliners do the same thing ... as do end plates ... ducts are just circular end plates ...

But destroying flow over the whole foil to reduce tip loss? I doubt it.

From the photos I've been able to find the lumps start close to the root ... there are no tip losses at the root ... the lumps get smaller towards the tip ... where tip losses are high ...

They say the lump reduce tip stalls ... yet the tips don't have the lumps ...

It makes no sense to me.