Ultimate Florida Challenge boat for 2012

[spidennis]

Introducing the Double Raptor 16 !
the top of the hulls would be a bit taller and be flat,
hatches would be added
along with the folding system
and it would be wider from hull to hull.

[spidennis]

this is darn similar ......

[spidennis]

Here's the K-designs, ......
and again, very, very close to what i want,
and this is already a sailing design,
not a paddling design made to sail.

I could build with the easy to build plywood method,
and once I got everything figured out,
then I could go for the super light composite hulls
and aluminum beams.

[portacruise]

Cool! It would be much easier to roll over long distances if the wheels could be flipped to the middle somehow to get a good balance lever. That would mean all the weight is taken by the wheels, and you only have to worry about lifting when going up hills, and can't roll down quite as fast as when using a bike..

Porta

Originally Posted by spidennis

Here's the K-designs, ......
and again, very, very close to what i want,
and this is already a sailing design,
not a paddling design made to sail.

I could build with the easy to build plywood method,
and once I got everything figured out,
then I could go for the super light composite hulls
and aluminum beams.

[JosephT]

I dunno, the last few boats seem a bit large. The portage would be difficult. I would stick with a lighter, sturdy, fast boat that can also be paddled at a decent speed (4.5 to 5mph minimum). Randy was on to something with his light, fast boat. There are wheels to re-invent, but don't drift too far from the basic principles that helped him win. A catamaran or trimaran of equal or better performance will do it. Thus far I haven't seen one on the market. It may require a fresh set of plans from an existing builder.

When you're under way stash a roll of duct tape & small epoxy repair kit just in case a repair on the fly is needed. Good sea trials will help iron out kinks. Train in the boat as much as you can (3 months worth).

[JosephT]

Actually...here's very good boat that's pays attention to both sailing & paddling.

http://www.triaksports.com/paddling/

It's got some good performance ratings.

http://www.adventuretrimaran.com/Tri...Comparison.htm

Setup is quick too. Insert a good butt cushion and you're all set for the long ride.

[spidennis]

Originally Posted by JosephT

Actually...here's very good boat that's pays attention to both sailing & paddling.

http://www.triaksports.com/paddling/

It's got some good performance ratings.

http://www.adventuretrimaran.com/Tri...Comparison.htm

Setup is quick too. Insert a good butt cushion and you're all set for the long ride.

This is very interesting! Kinda like a Huki surf ski with the gull wings ... but with storage.
but I wonder how it paddles loaded to the gills with food/water/gear?
I also like that it's double bladed .....

[messabout]

I would make two suggestions. One; abandon the bi plane sail plan. two; abandon the sailboard sail. Reasons..two rigs as in bi plane would be an abominable PITA. in addition you will need to be a better than average sailor to get the optimum performance from such a rig..........Sailboard rigs are superb for sail boards. They are basicly designed for high speed sailing. Your enduro boat will not be a high speed boat and it will do better with a sail and rig that is designed more nearly for slow speeds.(slow in comparison with board boats)

It is essential that you keep your whole outfit simple as well as reasonably durable. If you get blindsided by the desire for high boat speed you are going to be involved with too much intricacy and be obliged to endure the demand for undivided long term attention to sail trim, steering, tactics, and safety. With the certainty of fatigue you will need the most forgiving rig that you can contrive.

Paddling is a whole other category. Give preference to boats with minimum wetted surface. Cat and tri types will not fare well in this regard. You will not be paddling at hull speeds, so long lengths are to be viewed hesitantly. You need to do the math with regard to wetted surface. Do not take some salesmans word for it. When paddling or other human power is the propulsive mode, wet surface must be given high priority.

[spidennis]

Originally Posted by JosephT

Actually...here's very good boat that's pays attention to both sailing & paddling.

http://www.triaksports.com/paddling/

It's got some good performance ratings.

http://www.adventuretrimaran.com/Tri...Comparison.htm

Setup is quick too. Insert a good butt cushion and you're all set for the long ride.

the Triak guys just got back with me and says there's a guy in Florida that is going to use it for the UFC ..... and expects to win.

[spidennis]

Originally Posted by messabout

I would make two suggestions. One; abandon the bi plane sail plan. two; abandon the sailboard sail. Reasons..two rigs as in bi plane would be an abominable PITA. in addition you will need to be a better than average sailor to get the optimum performance from such a rig..........Sailboard rigs are superb for sail boards. They are basicly designed for high speed sailing. Your enduro boat will not be a high speed boat and it will do better with a sail and rig that is designed more nearly for slow speeds.(slow in comparison with board boats)

It is essential that you keep your whole outfit simple as well as reasonably durable. If you get blindsided by the desire for high boat speed you are going to be involved with too much intricacy and be obliged to endure the demand for undivided long term attention to sail trim, steering, tactics, and safety. With the certainty of fatigue you will need the most forgiving rig that you can contrive.

Paddling is a whole other category. Give preference to boats with minimum wetted surface. Cat and tri types will not fare well in this regard. You will not be paddling at hull speeds, so long lengths are to be viewed hesitantly. You need to do the math with regard to wetted surface. Do not take some salesmans word for it. When paddling or other human power is the propulsive mode, wet surface must be given high priority.

Bernd from K-designs also got back with me. He wants to look into developing a UFC boat, cool! He has easy to build plans for several beach cats, plus a folding design, and he has biplane rigs. He has experience in all the features in the boat that I'm looking for. To build a boat and successfully compete in it is a high goal for me.

messabout, I completely agree with keeping it easy to sail and to factor in the fatigue factor. You have to first finish in order to win. I will certainly take a hit on the paddling/rowing aspects, but in sailing which is the major portion I should do very well. I will soon be testing portaging my prindle 16 around to see what's possible.

[spidennis]

Here's a strip F16 blog that's quite interesting!
http://woodastic.blogspot.com/

a ply/epoxy boat won't give me any kind of curves in the hull but a strip boat will. cool. and I think I can find me some local help with getting started with this technology.

Here is another example pic of what I'm shooting for.
This even has a center pod which I'll want to incorporate somehow.
It might just be a bimini and doger that can fold down and out of the way.
I can sail in bad weather and stay dry, and it can be my sleeping quarters.
If I shoot for a hull width of 12" and with the boat folded about 24",
then the center pod will be 24" wide, and plenty for me. (5'3"@165lbs)

[spidennis]

First Portage Test - a huge success!

youtube video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfSN8NgWao0
I can't seem to imbed it here, yet anyway.




Not that I ever doubted it would work, but it did better than I thought. My portage cart was just thrown together and it's not for real, but it shows proof of concept and I got no doubt that with the right set of wheel and the right placement it will do 40 miles with a full load with no problem. What surprised me was the very tight turning radius!

Next I'm gonna put caster wheels under it and develop the folding system proof of concept mockup/model and have it demonstrate it's ability in the driveway.

Rudders, hatches, oars, and a sailplan are next ......

..... and just to update everyone, I am not going to paddle my "Unlitter Kayak" in the 300 mile Everglades Challenge (ec) to qualify for the 1200 Ultimate Florida Challenge (ufc) but instead develop this prindle 16 platform and enter it in the EC so that I'll be better prepared for the UFC later.

[portacruise]

Cool! I like that the load is balanced so the wheels take all the weight and you only have to be concerned about pulling and not tongue weight.

Will the road be paved where you will be pulling? If not, shocks and large wheels might be in order?

Porta

Originally Posted by spidennis

First Portage Test - a huge success!

youtube video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfSN8NgWao0
I can't seem to imbed it here, yet anyway.




Not that I ever doubted it would work, but it did better than I thought. My portage cart was just thrown together and it's not for real, but it shows proof of concept and I got no doubt that with the right set of wheel and the right placement it will do 40 miles with a full load with no problem. What surprised me was the very tight turning radius!

Next I'm gonna put caster wheels under it and develop the folding system proof of concept mockup/model and have it demonstrate it's ability in the driveway.

Rudders, hatches, oars, and a sailplan are next ......

..... and just to update everyone, I am not going to paddle my "Unlitter Kayak" in the 300 mile Everglades Challenge (ec) to qualify for the 1200 Ultimate Florida Challenge (ufc) but instead develop this prindle 16 platform and enter it in the EC so that I'll be better prepared for the UFC later.

[spidennis]

Here's a youtube video of the portage at night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzrZfQfjO0Y
I think I'd prefer doing this at night,
as there won't be any logging trucks to deal with.
I'd also be able to see approaching headllights
and that would alert me to be careful.
Also, there would be a lot less traffic in general, I hope.

This poor guy didn't use a bike, but pulled his rig like a mule!
Call me a whimp if you want, but I'll be using a bike!

I'm exploring the folding system now ....
but I got to make a cart using grocery cart wheels first.
I want to demo the folding feature while in my drive way.
I'll also use this cart with casting wheels as a better straight line cart.

I want to preview this boat in the christmas street parade ....
got to do the promoting thing at any chance I get!
maybe even get a sponsor on line because of it?
anyway, can't let that chance go by with out using it!
I won this parade one year btw ......
I put a waverunner overtop of my motorcycle
and pulled a water skier that was on inline skates.
It was an easy win!

[ChuckieBlood]

Originally Posted by spidennis

but instead develop this prindle 16 platform and enter it in the EC so that I'll be better prepared for the UFC later.

Hmmm. Kinda heavy, ain't it? Maybe I should ask you how heavy it will be when ready to go.

CB