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  #16  
Old 10-13-2010, 04:08 AM
Munter Munter is offline
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I see no booms for the biplane rigs. Wishbone booms are common on these rigs because of the difficulty of getting leech tension when the sail is out to leeward. Are you across this issue?
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  #17  
Old 10-13-2010, 07:57 AM
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spidennis spidennis is offline
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Munter,
I am not yet that far in development ......
since I'm in a windsurfing environment I'll start with that,
then try out something along the lines of reef-able system.
If you happen to come across some ideas please let me know!
thanks,
d
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  #18  
Old 10-13-2010, 09:23 AM
portacruise portacruise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidennis View Post
I recently saw the akwakat website, yeah, so that's on my mind. The kinetic website was a hoot! I'll have to go back there some more, that was fun, and educational to boot. I learned a few things there .....


this page shows some of the workings of the drive.
http://www.akwakat.co.nz/index.php?p...close-personal
it needs 14" of water to operate
and from their facebook page:
with FedEx we can now offer the Akwakat at US$1190 delivered to the USA.
Price does not include any state taxes, levies, or duties.
Don't know if an inflatable has ever won, but there are advantages to being able to DEFLATE for the portage part as the kinetic site indicates..

Porta
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  #19  
Old 10-13-2010, 09:33 AM
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spidennis spidennis is offline
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Porta,

"Crazy Russian" used a russian made inflatable cat and successfully completed the last UFC. He hated the river sections .... but he did run the rapids at Big Shoals ... don't know if anyone else had ever done that! He of course had zero storage in the Hulls and everything had to be on the deck. Maybe not the best setup, but he finished in a boat no one had tried before.
d
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  #20  
Old 10-13-2010, 09:50 AM
FAST FRED FAST FRED is offline
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Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
Remember on the "other" side of the hill its DOWN!

If you can be in control , going far above running speed might make up more time , again a bike might work.

FF
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  #21  
Old 10-13-2010, 10:01 AM
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spidennis spidennis is offline
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yeah, but don't you know it'll be an battle against a head wind, it always happens!
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  #22  
Old 10-13-2010, 10:44 AM
Wavewacker Wavewacker is offline
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A long time ago I was that guy to go after. It's alot of pressure at times to know that everyone is gunning for you! All top athelets have bad days, look at Tiger lately! So you can absolutely do it! I friend of mine won the Iron Man, I could ride 120 miles with him, he would beat be by no more than 20 feet (it was the sprinting and he was a couple years older, I was a teenager), we jogged together, I was a cross country runner and then I don't think he would have beat me. Swimming, I was a regional winner in free style, that was his worst event as I recall. I was invited to try out for the Olympics, but couldn't afford to get to Denver at the time and had just gotten married, I then went in the Army and he continued to go on and win the Iron Man. I have always regreted not going to Denver, not that I would win, but for the experience of the competition. The triathlon event did not exist in my day and there was no money in cycling, swimming or running. He tried to get me to come back later on, but I had slacked way off for years and smoked at the time!

So, even at 51 (I'm only 9 years older in March, kid) if you're capable, heart, lungs, the rest can be made to compete. It's all in the mind!
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  #23  
Old 10-13-2010, 02:38 PM
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JosephT JosephT is offline
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I like Randy's scissor trimaran...great idea and captures two elements that I pointed out: wind & human power

Your idea appears on a very similar track. His sail plan may have a bit more square footage than your configuration. As with any sailing race, making sure you can meet or beat his boat speed in sailing mode will be important. He's a sailor and is leveraging those sails for good portions of the race.

In paddling mode, I think your rig would be easier to paddle if you could completely sandwich the hulls to make a single hull. Don't leave a wide gap for that bike wheel. All bike wheels & hardware should be mounted fore/aft of your paddling position on the deck (or in a vertical slot) so it's not in the way. In paddle mode keep all gear low for minimal wind drag.

Randy's double outriggers are no doubt a big drag when paddling. In windy paddling conditions they will slow him down even more. I race surfskis and I can't count the number of outriggers I've passed on windy days. If it's feasible to make your catamaran sandwich into a single hull WITHOUT all that gear hanging on the sides that would be the target. Make it fast in the wind and the water. I would go with a beam just over 20 inches when in collapsed mode.

The pedal bikes are mainly for flatwater paddling. They are no match for the ocean and would be a disaster in a long race like this.

Stick with your design...just refine the hulls so they're fast and get a fast sail rig.
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  #24  
Old 10-13-2010, 04:37 PM
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spidennis spidennis is offline
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http://smalltrimarans.com/r/seaclipper-20-trimaran.html

Here is a link to a video showing the SeaClipper20. dstgean suggested it and also also suggested just using the outriggers and not using the center hull at all. Yup, that's pretty much what I'm looking for .....
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  #25  
Old 10-13-2010, 04:50 PM
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spidennis spidennis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephT View Post
I like Randy's scissor trimaran...great idea and captures two elements that I pointed out: wind & human power

Your idea appears on a very similar track. His sail plan may have a bit more square footage than your configuration. As with any sailing race, making sure you can meet or beat his boat speed in sailing mode will be important. He's a sailor and is leveraging those sails for good portions of the race.

In paddling mode, I think your rig would be easier to paddle if you could completely sandwich the hulls to make a single hull. Don't leave a wide gap for that bike wheel. All bike wheels & hardware should be mounted fore/aft of your paddling position on the deck (or in a vertical slot) so it's not in the way. In paddle mode keep all gear low for minimal wind drag.

Randy's double outriggers are no doubt a big drag when paddling. In windy paddling conditions they will slow him down even more. I race surfskis and I can't count the number of outriggers I've passed on windy days. If it's feasible to make your catamaran sandwich into a single hull WITHOUT all that gear hanging on the sides that would be the target. Make it fast in the wind and the water. I would go with a beam just over 20 inches when in collapsed mode.

The pedal bikes are mainly for flatwater paddling. They are no match for the ocean and would be a disaster in a long race like this.

Stick with your design...just refine the hulls so they're fast and get a fast sail rig.
I recently got a surf ski, my longest paddle to date in a day is 26.5 miles. This boat makes all other paddling seem oh so slow! It would sure be nice to have that performance in the river sections!

A beam of just 20 inches total when folded? I hadn't thought of going quite that narrow. I still got to carry gear and I'd like for it to be in the hulls. Too many people lose stuff and force them to DNF. the gear in the hulls would mostly prevent that.

"completely sandwich the hulls to make a single hull": hummm .... that would put me into making a custom designed hull. I was going to use an existing set of plans and this would be my first boat building experience. If I could only make a pair of hull as light as my mako xt, now that would be something! I think for now I'll stick with an existing design, but you sure got me thinking about that idea! Maybe have that design ready for the next UFC in 2014?
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  #26  
Old 10-14-2010, 05:19 AM
Tiny Turnip Tiny Turnip is offline
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You might get some ideas from the Solway Dory website:

www.solwaydory.co.uk

They specialise in sailing canoes, and have unstayed rigs which reef by spinning the mast, kick up leeboards, and a range of outrigger and tri designs which breakdown and are car toppable, so likely bike towable without too much faffing. You can buy the rigs, leeboards, rudders.

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  #27  
Old 10-14-2010, 04:49 PM
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JosephT JosephT is offline
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Hi Dennis, I like the SeaClipper20, but I see a couple of problems:

1. Can it be paddled in flat/calm water? Appears to be only a trimaran with collapsing outriggers. It folds up for the trailer, but what about a paddling configuration?

2. The beam on the hull & outriggers looks a bit wide. Unless you have those stiff northern winds (as in the video), this boat may not be as fast as you think in calmer sailing water.

If he can make a slimmer boat that you can nap in, and that can be paddled, then you're all set. Ask him for some custom plans. I like the idea...needs some tweaking though.

Cheers,

Joe
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  #28  
Old 10-14-2010, 07:35 PM
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spidennis spidennis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephT View Post
Hi Dennis, I like the SeaClipper20, but I see a couple of problems:

1. Can it be paddled in flat/calm water? Appears to be only a trimaran with collapsing outriggers. It folds up for the trailer, but what about a paddling configuration?

2. The beam on the hull & outriggers looks a bit wide. Unless you have those stiff northern winds (as in the video), this boat may not be as fast as you think in calmer sailing water.

If he can make a slimmer boat that you can nap in, and that can be paddled, then you're all set. Ask him for some custom plans. I like the idea...needs some tweaking though.

Cheers,

Joe
Joe,
the SeaClipper is the right concept, and you see just what needs to be done, and what needs to be modified to make it all work. I wish you were a boat designer! We are so on the same page here .....

true, the seaclipper is a tri, but without that center hull it would be a cat! Instead of a whole hull it would be just a platform to hold the folding parts. Now I see a few different ways from a few different manufacturers to tie the cross beams all together and I'd use a combo of this and that. The SeaClipper uses just one bolt on the outrigger, that's just not gonna do for me. I'd use something to tie off or bolt to either side of the outrigger hulls.
Bolt/Hinge in the middle, tie offs on the out and inside of the hulls like this:


another idea .....



and example of a UFC portage system
(Crazy Russian with his inflatable cat):
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  #29  
Old 10-14-2010, 08:08 PM
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spidennis spidennis is offline
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for a sail plan it's been suggested to me to look at the Raptor 16
http://www.hydrovisions.com/
I wanted to use basically windsurfing gear and modify it some how,
and that's basically what the raptor has going on.
They have a welded plate that the boom attaches to,
I was going to use my windsurfing boom and attach to the mast extension.
The sail I still got some figuring to do .....


I found this an interesting idea ....
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Ultimate Florida Challenge boat for 2012-tx6d.jpg  
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  #30  
Old 10-14-2010, 08:32 PM
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spidennis spidennis is offline
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If I rafted two raptor 16 hulls together with the folding system .....
put a few hatches in each hull for gear .....
look how light this all is!









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