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  #106  
Old 05-13-2006, 11:43 PM
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Guillermo Guillermo is offline
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The 'Alejandra' you mention was the one owned by Mario Conde? I've seen that one in Bayona harbour and I've found her a magnificent sailing yacht.
By the way, several images at your web site's Portfolio are not working properly and is quite annoying. You should take care of that.
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  #107  
Old 05-14-2006, 07:35 PM
Greenseas2 Greenseas2 is offline
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Troller cruising boats

All of the pictured boats are great. Conversion to a long range cruising vessel would be quite easy with all of them. I would opt for partial ballast and a larger fuel load. These types of boats are also very stable when going to the fishing griounds light ship except for ice. The CG is low so any rolling will be gentle. As for additional stability, bilge plates would probably be preferable over para vanes.
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  #108  
Old 05-15-2006, 05:58 AM
FAST FRED FAST FRED is offline
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Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
"I would opt for partial ballast and a larger fuel load."

This can get quite dangerous as the vessel will loose stability as the fuel is burned off , unless its ONE damn BIG boat!

FAST FRED
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  #109  
Old 05-15-2006, 08:13 AM
Greenseas2 Greenseas2 is offline
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Other expendable load

Fred, what's the difference betwen a fuel load and the ice melting on a troller. If there's that much concern, intenal sea water ballast tank(s) can be fitted. We use seawater ballast on ships that I've run to maintain an acceptable CG, but usually only top them off for storm conditions. Granted, a troller may ride a little higher, but most are low profile boats to begin with. An extra 300 gallons (2,100 pounds) will only put the average troller down about an inch on the water line. Little if any change in metacenter.
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  #110  
Old 05-15-2006, 05:34 PM
FAST FRED FAST FRED is offline
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Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
"what's the difference betwen a fuel load and the ice melting on a troller."

Ordinarily the fuel is quite low in the hull , and the ice is hopefully replaced with dead fish to pay for the diesel.

300 galons is only 600 miles , perhaps 1200 on a really fine costly well designed super efficent boat , about 1/2 of any oceans worth of fuel.

FAST FRED
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  #111  
Old 05-16-2006, 01:45 AM
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Guillermo Guillermo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenseas2
...An extra 300 gallons (2,100 pounds) will only put the average troller down about an inch on the water line. Little if any change in metacenter.
That cannot be generalized. One ton for a 40 footer (If that's what we are talking about), down in the bilges, may have a significant influence in stability. If the boat has a critical GZ curve, the consumption of that one ton may lead to a dangerous situation. I've seen this happening in many fishing boats, particularly for the 10% fuel-20%catch load condition.
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  #112  
Old 05-18-2006, 11:05 AM
wave1235 wave1235 is offline
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Converted sailboat

My boat is smaller than what is being discussed, but I believe my experiences are applicible. I bought a Skipper 20, shoal keel sailboat and sold the mast at the same time. I bought a new 9.9hp Yamaha four stroke outboard extra long shaft high thrust at that time also. Installation of the motor in the well required opening the hole in the hull up larger to allow the motor to turn lock to lock as well as cutting the deck over the motor out for greater access. I then built a motor cover, small cabin, stout handrails, front hatch, and anchor pulpit from marine aluminum. The plate is all 3/16" 5052 and the railing is 6100 series 2" schedual 40 pipe. I kept the windows small and tough. I replaced the original sailboat cabin windows with 1/2" lexan as well as used the same in the aluminum hatch. I took the deck off the boat, did a lot of epoxy glass work to the interior, and refastened the deck with closely spaced stainless bolts and nylok nuts. Everything mounted is through bolted with stainless and nykoks with oversized aluminum backing plates. I used over 11 gallons of System Three epoxy (some West system) and many many yards of 12 & 6 ounce glass cloth. Many layers of glass/epoxy were added to cover an additional 3/16 " thick from the keel bottom to the water line. All additions, except the motor, added less than 200 pounds to the weight of the boat. The motor weighs 120 lbs. The water line raised 1 1/2". I have an aluminum arm with which I raise the motor out of the water when at the dock. The two sides of the motor well cover each have half a slot which come together (with a rubber cushions) on the raised motor shaft and are locked to prevent motor theft. I built a bench over the footwell area to limit the volume of water that can board which needs to run out and greatly increased the scupper sizes. The rounded bench top lifts to access two water tight compartments. One is for 17 gallons of fuel and the other is for fenders and dock lines when at sea. The high thrust outboard overpowers the boat. I can run right at seven mph which is above s/l ratio of 1.34 though the stern squats pretty good. Wide open throttle with that engine is one gph. At 5mph I get 15 to 20 mpg depending on sea state. Slack bilges means she rolls, but slowly for her size and I enjoy the great ride. She turns ahull when drifting and travels very slowly with as much boat as is in the water and her low windage profile. I can fish straight down even in a good breeze. Rolls a bit when ahull but stiffens right up as the keel gets some moment arm and is not snappy like my inboard/outboard boat. I made a toilet which uses trash bags and the cabin will sleep four ( bow double and two quarter berths. Being a double ender she has no problem coming over the bar in rough seas. I've been in eight foot breaking choppy seas and have yet to take anything but blown spray aboard. I have steering and controls inside and outside. Head room for inside steering is 6'-4". I'm 6'-2" and have never hit my head. With the door closed she will roll over and come right back up ( don't want to test that) and will not retain any water on baord for more than a few seconds. The same boat would be easy to do in a larger size but this is all I will want or need. Her name is "Bug".
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  #113  
Old 05-18-2006, 05:54 PM
wave1235 wave1235 is offline
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Bug

This picture is before glassing in the bench. Will get boat pictures with the bench tomorrow as I'm taking Friday off to go fishing.
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Troller Yachts vs Trawler Yachts-bug.jpg  

Last edited by wave1235 : 05-24-2006 at 06:43 PM. Reason: Tried to change picture but it was too large.
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  #114  
Old 05-24-2006, 10:51 AM
oforberg oforberg is offline
 
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Bigger isn't always better and faster isn't always more fun....I like your thinking and your boat.

I did not have any luck with pictures last time but will try again to post what I am patterning my build after.

Omar
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  #115  
Old 05-24-2006, 06:45 PM
wave1235 wave1235 is offline
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Small means more use, less hassel.

Nice boat. Lots of economy and maximum enjoyment.
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  #116  
Old 06-16-2006, 12:26 PM
Greenseas2 Greenseas2 is offline
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Experience

Just spent two weeks in California running a 32 foot monterey troller and a 31 footer as well as taking lines from several that were on blocks. We had a couple of nasty days west of the Golden Gate with at least 5 foot seas and both trollers handled them well abeam, and from both both both ends. We didn't really experience any difficulties in maneuvering or excessive rolling. While the trollers are slightly deep in the hull, they don't appear to be deep enough so that waves "catch the bottom, but rather they either ride the surface opf plow through. In the 30 plus lengths, they would make ideal sea kindly private vessels. The only noticeable difference between production trawlers and salmon trollers is that there is about 2 feet less internal space for accommodations. Great little boats.
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  #117  
Old 06-03-2007, 08:31 AM
Busman1965 Busman1965 is offline
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Trollers

As the owner of a 30' x 10', 1928 Salmon troller, built is Seattle, which now resides in Florida, I feel I can add alittle to this discussion. I have logged about 15,000 ocean miles in Florida and the Bahamas in my troller, in all kinds of conditions. Trollers are wonderful sea boats, but take a knowing hand to operate. They are serious rollers in beam seas, and require some stabilization. I installed Paravanes, after my first trip, as I was exhausted from 12 hrs of 40deg rolls!! The 'vanes solved the rolling, and only cost about 1/2-1 of a knot. I have run in seas up to 16ft, and she handles them fine, as long as they are on the bow, but I would never think of trying to run down sea in those conditons. The economy is wonderful, with a perkins 50hp diesel. I burn 3/4 gal hr at 6knts. They key thing about the troller hull, is not to push it more than 1.2 x hull speed, as the fuel consumption goes up tremendously, also, they tend to squat aft, and the sea-keeping ability suffers. I do not recommend putting tons of ballast in these type hulls, as it makes the roll very quick, put in enough to make her self righting, in a knock down, but not much more, let the stabilizers do the work, instead. Remember, these boat always had huge trolling poles out, with large fishing weights on the wires (kind of a simple stabilizer). I have really loaded my troller down, with cargo, on a number of occasions, and she handles it fine, as long as it is kept well aft. This type of hull runs well with the aft deck, almost awash, as long as the bow is kept light and bouyant. Fuel for ballast is not really a good idea, as these boats should have saddle tanks, in the engine room, to make the most use of space, which means they are not very deep in the hull.
Also, the troller hull is no great joy to steer in rough seas, they need constant attention, so fit a really good autopilot. I rarely touch the helm, after leaving a harbor. The only real drawback to this type of hull, is they are very hard to run down sea in any kind of bad conditions. I thought the rudder on my troller was much too large, until I had to come in a nasty inlet in 10-12ft seas.....it took all the rudder I had to keep from broaching to. I just felt I should throw my 2 cents in, as someone who has logged alot of miles in this style hull.
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  #118  
Old 06-03-2007, 03:15 PM
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Guillermo Guillermo is offline
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Nice boat, Busman, congratulations!
Cheers.
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  #119  
Old 06-04-2007, 09:27 AM
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Pericles Pericles is offline
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Lottsa knots for notta lotta dosh.

George Buehler's Diesel Ducks were mentioned earlier in this thread and Tad seemed not to be impressed, which puzzled me as there are a significant number of satisfied owners. I have followed Tad's opinion, both here and at his site and have agreed with all he has posted, so I shall refrain from further comment. http://dieselducks.com/Concept.html

On Malcolm Tennant's site, a very strong case is made for his displacement catamaran designs, on the basis of fuel efficiency and spacious accommodation. His 10 to 15 metre designs certainly give pause for thought. http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/boats.php?boat=151

Jacques Mertens is now selling his latest offering. http://www.boatplans-online.com/stud...LB26_study.htm

I am very impressed! Have bought a set of plans and am waiting for Mr Mailman to deliver ASAP. His other design that also warranted my attention is here. http://www.boatplans-online.com/stud...VG26_study.htm

I might have been tempted by the VG26, if sticks and sheets still held the appeal they had for me in the eighties. Alas, cooking and sleeping on the tilt no longer has the magic it once held.

So, for what it's worth, if I can't have the boat I want, I'll enjoy the boat I can have. My plans for a forty footer will have to remain just plans.

There are two options for the LB26 and I shall go for marine ply and epoxy, thus reserving my right to post progress on WoodenBoat Forum.

Pericles
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  #120  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:37 PM
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Guillermo Guillermo is offline
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Perry,
I'm very well impressed by the VG 26, too.
Don't worry about abandonig the 40 footer idea for the time being. The VG 26 will cost much less than half and probably you'll enjoy it more than the double!
Keep us posted on the building.
Cheers.
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